4 ms·

Let’s face it no business manager would think about asking for the level of commitment and self-sacrifice that is commonly asked of software developers of a law

Let’s face it no business manager would think about asking for the level of commitment and self-sacrifice that is commonly asked of software developers of a lawyer or CPA I suspect the author has never been a just-out-of-college grad in any job other than development. I can assure you that there will be the expectation of providing your services for >40h/week in many industries. Do you know how hard the big law/accounting firms work their new recruits?

Alupis 12y ago
In fairness, a CPA is not likely to be "fresh out of college" recruit, and likely will be a bit more firm in what they will or will not due in regards to time commitment and expectations out of the company.
rqebmm 12y ago
Yeah this part was laughable. Fresh-out-of-school lawyers, accountant, and business-types are routinely expected to work 80-100 hour weeks at large firms. I have a friend who worked at Goldman Sachs up until their manager called them on Christmas Eve and demanded they drop everything and get to the airport ASAP for a big meeting. There was no meeting and upon reaching the airport they were told their job was safe and to go home and enjoy their Christmas. Those who did not report were fired upon returning from vacation. Do we hear about that kind of stuff ever happening to devs? (Well, outside the gaming industry)
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  That sounds shitty, but I assume Goldman Sachs employees are at least well compensated for it.
  - kooshball 12y ago
    Not really. Fresh grad Wall Street analysts are paid probably comparable or worse than first year google engineers. You don't start making good money until much later on from bonuses. And at that point no one will call you in for a Christmas Day meeting...
    - jiggy2011 12y ago
      Sure, but then aren't those first few years of pain the price of admission to a cushy bonus and a free Christmas?
      - steanne 12y ago
        if they live. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhardt-merrill-lynch-intern-dead-inquest http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhar...
    - ForHackernews 12y ago
      > Fresh grad Wall Street analysts are paid probably comparable or worse than first year google engineers. Maybe in terms of base salary, but Wall Street jobs frequently pay out an additional 50-100% of that base salary in bonus. It might be a case of $110,000 salary at Google vs. $100,000 salary + $100,000 bonus at JP Morgan.
- hartator 12y ago
  I would say that's maybe one of the reasons this company had crashed.
x0x0 12y ago
I well take your point, but biglaw offers $160k [1] plus bonus starting comp. Even if you don't make it through the up-or-out crucible, the 2-4 years you should make it ought to at least zero any school debt you have and leave you with a good chit on your resume. And my rule is to quit jobs if I have to work weekends and I don't see the c-staff in there as well. Even if they have no work to do; if they screwed up badly enough that I'm working they better not be fucking off with their kids or hobbies. [1] http://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/the-160k-plus-club-which-law-firms-pay-the-biggest-starting-salaries/ http://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/the-160k-plus-club-which-law-...
- MetaCosm 12y ago
  That is a handful of firms offering that, and some are tiny. W&C is legendary and like 200 people out of a single office... they grew to 200 people in 45 years -- do the math. These firms are hiring the absolute best... heck, if we keep an exclusive list like that, I bet with stock options software developers crush lawyers -- if we only care about the top sub 1% .. with some of the crazy stock adjusted packages at Google, MS, Amazon ... excluding the crazy start-ups.
  - x0x0 12y ago
    skim the leftmost column of [1]; $160 is a little optimistic but not much; by year 2 $160k is probably at worst the 50th percentile http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=New+York http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tc...
    - zimbu668 12y ago
      Not everyone can be a Manhattan attorney: http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=Boise http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tc...

Alupis 12y ago

In fairness, a CPA is not likely to be "fresh out of college" recruit, and likely will be a bit more firm in what they will or will not due in regards to time commitment and expectations out of the company.

rqebmm 12y ago

Yeah this part was laughable. Fresh-out-of-school lawyers, accountant, and business-types are routinely expected to work 80-100 hour weeks at large firms. I have a friend who worked at Goldman Sachs up until their manager called them on Christmas Eve and demanded they drop everything and get to the airport ASAP for a big meeting. There was no meeting and upon reaching the airport they were told their job was safe and to go home and enjoy their Christmas. Those who did not report were fired upon returning from vacation. Do we hear about that kind of stuff ever happening to devs? (Well, outside the gaming industry)

jiggy2011 12y ago
That sounds shitty, but I assume Goldman Sachs employees are at least well compensated for it.
- kooshball 12y ago
  Not really. Fresh grad Wall Street analysts are paid probably comparable or worse than first year google engineers. You don't start making good money until much later on from bonuses. And at that point no one will call you in for a Christmas Day meeting...
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    Sure, but then aren't those first few years of pain the price of admission to a cushy bonus and a free Christmas?
    - steanne 12y ago
      if they live. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhardt-merrill-lynch-intern-dead-inquest http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/22/moritz-erhar...
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    > Fresh grad Wall Street analysts are paid probably comparable or worse than first year google engineers. Maybe in terms of base salary, but Wall Street jobs frequently pay out an additional 50-100% of that base salary in bonus. It might be a case of $110,000 salary at Google vs. $100,000 salary + $100,000 bonus at JP Morgan.
hartator 12y ago
I would say that's maybe one of the reasons this company had crashed.

x0x0 12y ago

I well take your point, but biglaw offers $160k [1] plus bonus starting comp. Even if you don't make it through the up-or-out crucible, the 2-4 years you should make it ought to at least zero any school debt you have and leave you with a good chit on your resume. And my rule is to quit jobs if I have to work weekends and I don't see the c-staff in there as well. Even if they have no work to do; if they screwed up badly enough that I'm working they better not be fucking off with their kids or hobbies. [1] http://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/the-160k-plus-club-which-law-firms-pay-the-biggest-starting-salaries/ http://abovethelaw.com/2012/10/the-160k-plus-club-which-law-...

MetaCosm 12y ago
That is a handful of firms offering that, and some are tiny. W&C is legendary and like 200 people out of a single office... they grew to 200 people in 45 years -- do the math. These firms are hiring the absolute best... heck, if we keep an exclusive list like that, I bet with stock options software developers crush lawyers -- if we only care about the top sub 1% .. with some of the crazy stock adjusted packages at Google, MS, Amazon ... excluding the crazy start-ups.
- x0x0 12y ago
  skim the leftmost column of [1]; $160 is a little optimistic but not much; by year 2 $160k is probably at worst the 50th percentile http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=New+York http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tc...
  - zimbu668 12y ago
    Not everyone can be a Manhattan attorney: http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=Boise http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tc...