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Let's say I have a magic wand which will make all -isms go away in one waving. I waved, -isms went away and now what? Where do I hire skilled black female Coffe

by kika 12y ago

Let's say I have a magic wand which will make all -isms go away in one waving. I waved, -isms went away and now what? Where do I hire skilled black female CoffeeScript developers? How many of them do actually exist? I'm insider/outsider - I live in the US now, in Bay Area, but I went to school in the country which doesn't even exist anymore, while my daughter goes to the one of the best middle schools around here. And I see her genuine interest in math, she's among a group of 'popular' girls in the school, where the popularity is judged not (only) by the looks or clothes, but to what "Math Honor", "Advanced Geometry", etc class the student was admitted to. So it's not just her, there's a solid group of (mostly white though) girls interested in math and other similar topics. Where these girls disappear later? I understand that I'll learn this in a hard way later, but if there're valid theories out there, may be I'd be able to prevent her from losing interest in math, special video effects, photography, optics, etc. Something tells me it's not just our (white tech male population) sexism, it's a problem rooted deeper.

bqe 12y ago
There are systemic and cultural biases against women in math and in technical fields. Women are driven out of these fields by people in them. If you had a magic wand, women wouldn't be driven out, so there would be more women in professions that have biases against women.
king_jester 12y ago
> Let's say I have a magic wand which will make all -isms go away in one waving. I waved, -isms went away and now what? Where do I hire skilled black female CoffeeScript developers? This is a bit strange to say. If there were less barriers for people in tech, there would be more of different kinds of people in tech. Indeed, combating sexism and racism in tech should, in time, lead to more participation from people who currently are not in or leave tech quickly. > So it's not just her, there's a solid group of (mostly white though) girls interested in math and other similar topics. Where these girls disappear later? There are a variety of reasons why women do not pursue STEM that may happen at various times of their lives. If you want to know why that happens, you'd best look for the written experiences of woman and the reasons why they left. There's been quite a lot of blogging by some of those women on the subject. > I understand that I'll learn this in a hard way later, but if there're valid theories out there, may be I'd be able to prevent her from losing interest in math, special video effects, photography, optics, etc. Being supportive is great, but keep in mind you won't have the same experience as your child, esp. considering they are living in a different time and with a different gender. There ultimately may be, in fact, nothing you can do. But in this case your best bet is to read about the experience women have faced in STEM and share those resources. > Something tells me it's not just our (white tech male population) sexism, it's a problem rooted deeper. Sexism is both interpersonal and institutional, the deeper roots of the problem is still sexism and misogyny, among other things.
shanacarp 12y ago
I was that girl. You were my mother in a lot of ways (my mom is a programmer) the problem becomes more endemic in high school and then college where you have to start becoming a woman. Programming in a startup is not a great choice for peak fertility (where I am at...thankfully I consciously only want one kid, so I have time to delay)
- kika 12y ago
  I'm dad, not mom (though mom shares my concern) :-) You're saying "start becoming a woman" as it contradicts being an "IT person", whatever that means, programmer, sysadmin, etc. Why? I want my daughter to become a woman (as much as my wife is a woman, and oh boy, she is. While being a an executive director of a science foundation). But I also want her to become whoever she wants to become professionally, programmer, designer, digital artist, VFX guru, whatever. I can understand fertility and startup, but statistically, majority of "IT people" work for established companies, not startups. Enjoying all these extended maternity leaves, good health benefits plans, etc.

by kika 12y ago

bqe 12y ago

There are systemic and cultural biases against women in math and in technical fields. Women are driven out of these fields by people in them. If you had a magic wand, women wouldn't be driven out, so there would be more women in professions that have biases against women.

king_jester 12y ago

> Let's say I have a magic wand which will make all -isms go away in one waving. I waved, -isms went away and now what? Where do I hire skilled black female CoffeeScript developers? This is a bit strange to say. If there were less barriers for people in tech, there would be more of different kinds of people in tech. Indeed, combating sexism and racism in tech should, in time, lead to more participation from people who currently are not in or leave tech quickly. > So it's not just her, there's a solid group of (mostly white though) girls interested in math and other similar topics. Where these girls disappear later? There are a variety of reasons why women do not pursue STEM that may happen at various times of their lives. If you want to know why that happens, you'd best look for the written experiences of woman and the reasons why they left. There's been quite a lot of blogging by some of those women on the subject. > I understand that I'll learn this in a hard way later, but if there're valid theories out there, may be I'd be able to prevent her from losing interest in math, special video effects, photography, optics, etc. Being supportive is great, but keep in mind you won't have the same experience as your child, esp. considering they are living in a different time and with a different gender. There ultimately may be, in fact, nothing you can do. But in this case your best bet is to read about the experience women have faced in STEM and share those resources. > Something tells me it's not just our (white tech male population) sexism, it's a problem rooted deeper. Sexism is both interpersonal and institutional, the deeper roots of the problem is still sexism and misogyny, among other things.

shanacarp 12y ago

I was that girl. You were my mother in a lot of ways (my mom is a programmer) the problem becomes more endemic in high school and then college where you have to start becoming a woman. Programming in a startup is not a great choice for peak fertility (where I am at...thankfully I consciously only want one kid, so I have time to delay)

kika 12y ago
I'm dad, not mom (though mom shares my concern) :-) You're saying "start becoming a woman" as it contradicts being an "IT person", whatever that means, programmer, sysadmin, etc. Why? I want my daughter to become a woman (as much as my wife is a woman, and oh boy, she is. While being a an executive director of a science foundation). But I also want her to become whoever she wants to become professionally, programmer, designer, digital artist, VFX guru, whatever. I can understand fertility and startup, but statistically, majority of "IT people" work for established companies, not startups. Enjoying all these extended maternity leaves, good health benefits plans, etc.