5 ms·

So not only are corporations super humans that have limited liability and now religious views, you don't want those extremely wealthy "people" to pay taxes, eit

by bluthru 12y ago

So not only are corporations super humans that have limited liability and now religious views, you don't want those extremely wealthy "people" to pay taxes, either? I'm open to a "first world tax rate" for corporations, but dropping it to zero would do more harm than good.

lotharbot 12y ago
As long as the US has existed, there has been corporate personhood. The Supreme Court has argued it in terms of corporations being essentially groups of people acting together for a common cause, and noted that working together should not invalidate the rights to free speech, religious practice, entering contracts, etc. Chief Justice Marshall said it this way in 1830: "The great object of an incorporation is to bestow the character and properties of individuality on a collective and changing body of men." Key cases (you can find them all at http://supreme.justia.com/ http://supreme.justia.com/ ): Dartmouth College v. Woodward, 17 U.S. 518 (1819) Providence Bank v. Billings, 29 U.S. 514 (1830) Santa Clara County v Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 U.S. 394 (1886) United States v. United Auto Workers, 352 U.S. 567 (1957)
- caseydurfee 12y ago
  Funny you didn't quote Marshall's much more famous saying about corporations in Dartmouth College v. Woodward: "A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. Being the mere creature of law, it possesses only those properties which the charter of its creation confers upon it."
seanflyon 12y ago
Taxes are a great argument against corporate personhood. People pay taxes on income, corporations pay taxes on profit. This is why so many corporations pay no taxes at all. If they want to be people they should pay income tax like the rest of us.
- lotharbot 12y ago
  For most people, business expenses are paid by the employer and profit==income, but for some (the self-employed in particular) their business expenses come out of pocket and are deductible. Individuals actually end up paying taxes on profit, we're just used to wording it as income.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    Anything a corporation spends money on is an expense and is deducted from profit. Most things people spend money on (housing, food, car...) are generally not deductible. If people were taxed like corporations we would only be taxed on the increase in our savings accounts. Median american savings is $0 so most people would not pay any taxes if they were taxed like corporations.
    - lotharbot 12y ago
      anything business-related a corporation spends money on is an expense. Anything business-related an individual spends money on is an expense. Anything not-business-related a corporation spends money on is considered to be a misuse of funds (or fraud). People are already taxed in similar ways to corporations.
      - seanflyon 12y ago
        When a company spends money to continue its existence, such as rent, it is deducted from its taxable profit. When a person spends money to continue their existence, such as rent, it is not deducted from their taxable income. If people were taxed as corporations the median American would pay no taxes.

by bluthru 12y ago

lotharbot 12y ago

As long as the US has existed, there has been corporate personhood. The Supreme Court has argued it in terms of corporations being essentially groups of people acting together for a common cause, and noted that working together should not invalidate the rights to free speech, religious practice, entering contracts, etc. Chief Justice Marshall said it this way in 1830: "The great object of an incorporation is to bestow the character and properties of individuality on a collective and changing body of men." Key cases (you can find them all at http://supreme.justia.com/ http://supreme.justia.com/ ): Dartmouth College v. Woodward, 17 U.S. 518 (1819) Providence Bank v. Billings, 29 U.S. 514 (1830) Santa Clara County v Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 U.S. 394 (1886) United States v. United Auto Workers, 352 U.S. 567 (1957)

caseydurfee 12y ago
Funny you didn't quote Marshall's much more famous saying about corporations in Dartmouth College v. Woodward: "A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. Being the mere creature of law, it possesses only those properties which the charter of its creation confers upon it."

seanflyon 12y ago

Taxes are a great argument against corporate personhood. People pay taxes on income, corporations pay taxes on profit. This is why so many corporations pay no taxes at all. If they want to be people they should pay income tax like the rest of us.

lotharbot 12y ago
For most people, business expenses are paid by the employer and profit==income, but for some (the self-employed in particular) their business expenses come out of pocket and are deductible. Individuals actually end up paying taxes on profit, we're just used to wording it as income.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  Anything a corporation spends money on is an expense and is deducted from profit. Most things people spend money on (housing, food, car...) are generally not deductible. If people were taxed like corporations we would only be taxed on the increase in our savings accounts. Median american savings is $0 so most people would not pay any taxes if they were taxed like corporations.
  - lotharbot 12y ago
    anything business-related a corporation spends money on is an expense. Anything business-related an individual spends money on is an expense. Anything not-business-related a corporation spends money on is considered to be a misuse of funds (or fraud). People are already taxed in similar ways to corporations.
    - seanflyon 12y ago
      When a company spends money to continue its existence, such as rent, it is deducted from its taxable profit. When a person spends money to continue their existence, such as rent, it is not deducted from their taxable income. If people were taxed as corporations the median American would pay no taxes.