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Good for you man. But just realize that sadly, many churches operate as businesses where the pastor and his family just pocket tithes for their lifestyle and b

by JPKab 12y ago

Good for you man. But just realize that sadly, many churches operate as businesses where the pastor and his family just pocket tithes for their lifestyle and build fancy LED signs instead of giving to the poor......

xanderstrike 12y ago
Some do, most don't.
billjings 12y ago
Churches, like people, are better understood in concrete instances than in abstract declarations.
bduerst 12y ago
I think this is a common misconception. While I am sure there are outliers as with any normalized distribution, the mean salary for clergy is about $45k/yr (according to the US BLS).
- afarrell 12y ago
  yes, but you're not counting all those potluck dinners!
danielweber 12y ago
In the past decade churches have moved towards explicitly having their books run by non-members. It takes away the temptation of members abusing funds, and makes the people in charge apply the normal amount of oversight on bookkeeping, instead of "he's one of us, he'd never steal." PS I love the word bookkeeping and would love it even more if the "p" were doubled.
- lotharbot 12y ago
  my dad was always fond of the word for someone who works under the main bookkeeper: subbookkeeper
lotharbot 12y ago
I know a lot of pastors, and none of them have lifestyles that stand out in their communities. The inner city churches I know all have food banks, clothing banks, free hot meals, or similar programs. The churches I know in Utah set up safe houses for women and children fleeing polygamy. If you're connected to a church that operates as a business with the pastor taking home the profits, time to find a different church.
- maerF0x0 12y ago
  Or be an agent for change from within.
  - DonHopkins 12y ago
    Good luck changing the Church of Scientology from within. Or lecturing the Pope about preventing AIDS by distributing free condoms, for that matter.
    - PakG1 12y ago
      I believe the current pope has gone on record saying that the Christian world pays more attention to sexual issues than is warranted, when compared to other issues that exist in the world. I'm not a Catholic, but am quite impressed with this guy so far.
      - DonHopkins 12y ago
        You're awfully easy to impress, if only by the slight contrast to how absolutely evil, horrible and immoral the previous pope was. Not even the current "liberal hippie pope" is having much success changing the Catholic Church from within, so what makes you think anyone who's not its most powerful leader could ever possibly have any success? Anyone claiming they haven't resigned from the Catholic Church in disgrace because they want to remain inside to be an "agent of change" is totally full of it, and guilty of perpetuating the problem. Does it actually impress you that the current pope wasn't personally the architect and prosecutor of officially covering up and perpetuating all the terrible widespread sexual abuse systematically perpetrated by the Catholic Church, who wrote and enforced the official church policy of protecting priests who rape children, and excommunicating anyone who speaks out about it? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childp... http://thewe.cc/weplanet/news/europe/vatican/papal_evil.htm http://thewe.cc/weplanet/news/europe/vatican/papal_evil.htm If the pope's desire to cover up sexual abuse is what you mean by "paying more attention to sexual issues than is warranted", can you please justify why you think the Catholic Church should pay less attention to their longstanding issues of raping children and protecting the rapists from prosecution? And why you think it's a good thing that the current pope doesn't think it's such a big deal that requires much attention?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- lotharbot 12y ago
  Not that long ago, you participated in an HN poll that showed about 3/4 of the HN population do not believe in God. Yet this particular comment, and several of yours in this post, have been downmodded heavily. That suggests either that the religious types on HN are very well organized, or that even the non-religious types find these comments out of place. I suggest it is the latter. You complained a few months ago about someone being rude, and said "Religious discrimination is no lesser than racism or sexism." Perhaps you should take your own advice to heart. Somebody here showed a project he's been working on which happens to be religious-focused. The right response is to discuss his software -- not to make discriminatory comments about religion. Notice that nobody has engaged in religious proselytizing in this thread except for you (in deleted comments). Nobody has tried to wedge in any sort of commentary about the truth of Christianity or any other religion except for you. Everybody else knows better. Here on HN, we prefer for comments to have actual substance -- to say genuinely interesting things. There's a section of the guidelines that's explicit about flamewar topics (religion, politics): only introduce those topics if you have something genuinely new to say. The parent comment, as well as most of yours, are stale and boring. There's nothing genuinely new, nothing profound, nothing insightful, just anger. That may be appropriate for FaceBook, but not for Hacker News. Elevate the conversation.
Havoc 12y ago
>churches operate as businesses In truth this seems to be the US mega-churches. Round here the pastors live a decent but modest life. Enough to raise a family not enough to buy a flashy car.

by JPKab 12y ago

xanderstrike 12y ago

Some do, most don't.

billjings 12y ago

Churches, like people, are better understood in concrete instances than in abstract declarations.

bduerst 12y ago

I think this is a common misconception. While I am sure there are outliers as with any normalized distribution, the mean salary for clergy is about $45k/yr (according to the US BLS).

afarrell 12y ago
yes, but you're not counting all those potluck dinners!

danielweber 12y ago

In the past decade churches have moved towards explicitly having their books run by non-members. It takes away the temptation of members abusing funds, and makes the people in charge apply the normal amount of oversight on bookkeeping, instead of "he's one of us, he'd never steal." PS I love the word bookkeeping and would love it even more if the "p" were doubled.

lotharbot 12y ago
my dad was always fond of the word for someone who works under the main bookkeeper: subbookkeeper

lotharbot 12y ago

I know a lot of pastors, and none of them have lifestyles that stand out in their communities. The inner city churches I know all have food banks, clothing banks, free hot meals, or similar programs. The churches I know in Utah set up safe houses for women and children fleeing polygamy. If you're connected to a church that operates as a business with the pastor taking home the profits, time to find a different church.

maerF0x0 12y ago
Or be an agent for change from within.
- DonHopkins 12y ago
  Good luck changing the Church of Scientology from within. Or lecturing the Pope about preventing AIDS by distributing free condoms, for that matter.
  - PakG1 12y ago
    I believe the current pope has gone on record saying that the Christian world pays more attention to sexual issues than is warranted, when compared to other issues that exist in the world. I'm not a Catholic, but am quite impressed with this guy so far.
    - DonHopkins 12y ago
      You're awfully easy to impress, if only by the slight contrast to how absolutely evil, horrible and immoral the previous pope was. Not even the current "liberal hippie pope" is having much success changing the Catholic Church from within, so what makes you think anyone who's not its most powerful leader could ever possibly have any success? Anyone claiming they haven't resigned from the Catholic Church in disgrace because they want to remain inside to be an "agent of change" is totally full of it, and guilty of perpetuating the problem. Does it actually impress you that the current pope wasn't personally the architect and prosecutor of officially covering up and perpetuating all the terrible widespread sexual abuse systematically perpetrated by the Catholic Church, who wrote and enforced the official church policy of protecting priests who rape children, and excommunicating anyone who speaks out about it? http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childp... http://thewe.cc/weplanet/news/europe/vatican/papal_evil.htm http://thewe.cc/weplanet/news/europe/vatican/papal_evil.htm If the pope's desire to cover up sexual abuse is what you mean by "paying more attention to sexual issues than is warranted", can you please justify why you think the Catholic Church should pay less attention to their longstanding issues of raping children and protecting the rapists from prosecution? And why you think it's a good thing that the current pope doesn't think it's such a big deal that requires much attention?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

lotharbot 12y ago
Not that long ago, you participated in an HN poll that showed about 3/4 of the HN population do not believe in God. Yet this particular comment, and several of yours in this post, have been downmodded heavily. That suggests either that the religious types on HN are very well organized, or that even the non-religious types find these comments out of place. I suggest it is the latter. You complained a few months ago about someone being rude, and said "Religious discrimination is no lesser than racism or sexism." Perhaps you should take your own advice to heart. Somebody here showed a project he's been working on which happens to be religious-focused. The right response is to discuss his software -- not to make discriminatory comments about religion. Notice that nobody has engaged in religious proselytizing in this thread except for you (in deleted comments). Nobody has tried to wedge in any sort of commentary about the truth of Christianity or any other religion except for you. Everybody else knows better. Here on HN, we prefer for comments to have actual substance -- to say genuinely interesting things. There's a section of the guidelines that's explicit about flamewar topics (religion, politics): only introduce those topics if you have something genuinely new to say. The parent comment, as well as most of yours, are stale and boring. There's nothing genuinely new, nothing profound, nothing insightful, just anger. That may be appropriate for FaceBook, but not for Hacker News. Elevate the conversation.

Havoc 12y ago

>churches operate as businesses In truth this seems to be the US mega-churches. Round here the pastors live a decent but modest life. Enough to raise a family not enough to buy a flashy car.