9 ms·

What if my church is called a mosque?

by maga 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago
Or a temple, synagogue, cathedral, monastery, abbey, tabernacle, or center? "Church" is just the generic English word for "place of worship".
- sandyarmstrong 12y ago
  I don't think any non-Christian in the United States would agree with this. Not that there's anything wrong with sticking to a particular audience.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    One of the largest synagogues in Chicago asks people to contact its "church representative" to place advertising in its bulletin. You're much more right than I am, though. Certainly, non-Christian faiths in the US don't use the term "church" by default.
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>"Church" is just the generic English word for "place of worship". It definitely is not. I have no idea where you even came up with this. Heck, there are even groups of Christians who object to the use of the word "church" to mean place of worship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_worship#Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_worship#Christianity
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    "Church" definitely is the generic English word for place of (particularly, Christian) worship (or, similarly, for the actual worship services), largely as the result of it being the word used by the religious groups that were dominant throughout the entire evolution of modern English for their places of worship. Yes, there are certain groups that object to that for etymological reasons because "church" also is the English word for the body of believers, and who don't use the word that way, but that doesn't make it any less a normal (and, in fact, the primary) meaning the word has in English.
    - enraged_camel 12y ago
      >>"Church" definitely is the generic English word for place of (particularly, Christian) worship Not particularly. Only. As in, the word "church" only refers to Christian places of worship. Honestly it is pretty bizarre that you and tptacek are claiming otherwise. Maybe we're talking past each other. I just don't know any Muslims who say "I'm going to the church tomorrow," or any Buddhists say "I was at the church yesterday". I also don't know of any Christians who refer to synagogues as "churches." Now, if you are saying that "church" means any Christian place of worship - as in, people don't differentiate between church and cathedral, which are different things - then yes, I can agree with that. But that's not how I read your comments.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        If both sides of this debate are in some way correct, it's clear that the "church is a Christian term" side of the debate is more correct, so if just getting that on the table and stipulating it to be true ends an unproductive discussion: it is so stipulated.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > As in, the word "church" only refers to Christian places of worship. That's not correct; e.g., the first definition from the full definitions at m-w.com is "a building for public and especially Christian worship". In practice, there is more to it than that -- its not uncommon to be used generically and inclusively for place of worship, but you'd never (except through ignorance) use it for a specific place of worship except consistently with the usage of the group for whom it is a place of worship. (But the groups who use it specifically for their places of worhsip is also not the same as "Christian" -- it includes many, but not all, Christian groups as well as some, mostly newer, non-Christian groups.) More relevant to the thread: the use of "church" doesn't seem to be about a place of worship, anyway, its about a body of believers, which is a use of the term which is somewhat less divisive, though still has the same generic for unspecified religions (though "congregation" would probably be better) and specific for some, mostly Christian, religions. So, its not an unreasonable single-word term to use in explaining the function of a generic product, though the complexities of the use and the emotional attachment that goes with naming issues around religion may make it problematic. Though, really, the name ("OneBody") of the product is far more of a specifically Christian reference than the word "church" in its description of purpose. > Now, if you are saying that "church" means any Christian place of worship - as in, people don't differentiate between church and cathedral, which are different things Well, this is far off the point of even this subthread, but the set of cathedrals is a proper subset of the set of churches in the way both terms are used by most groups that use the former term at all. That is a cathedral is a church that is also the seat of a bishop. So even outside of the generic sense, its proper to refer to a cathedral as a church.
  - dspillett 12y ago
    I agree, unless specifically qualified otherwise (such as "the church of the giant spaghetti monster" or "church of scientology") I would assume that the word church relates to a Christian place or group or one one of the many off-shoots (and a quick check of a dictionary seems to support that). But... > there are even groups of Christians who object to That proves nothing though. For any X you can find a group calling themselves Christian who strongly object to X, many Christians think they "own" the word and concept of marriage and have the right to define exactly what it means, and so forth...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- DonHopkins 12y ago
  In the same sense that "Caucasian" is just the generic English word for "human being", and "heterosexual" is just the generic English word for "acceptable lifestyle".
timmorgan 12y ago
The software is definitely Christian church focused because that's where we first built it, but no reason it couldn't be adapted for other uses!
- maga 12y ago
  I was more interested in your personal feelings about it, since the license doesn't forbid this scenario. I'm glad you have positive attitude toward it. Great work, Tim, thank you for it! Although I'm personally long lost for any church or shrine, I'm glad that local communities now have one more good tool to cooperate.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
kcmarshall 12y ago
Your point is well-made. Language is very important on religious websites. My church used an online directory from a commercial provider which had fairly obvious opinions about the appropriate mix of genders in a family. Their opinion was directly opposite that of our congregations and ultimately we dropped the system in favor of another.
incision 12y ago
Fork and run sed - such is the beauty of OSS. I just sent this a non-technical friend whose 'church is called a mosque'. I'm sure he'd be able to figure this out and I'm sure you could too. No need to be disingenuous.
- maga 12y ago
  It's a hypothetical question. Don't be hasty.
maerF0x0 12y ago
You could upgrade it with an internationalization language and convert Christianese to Islamicist language .
drdaeman 12y ago
From a quick glance, the software - while being marketed as one for churches - isn't really religious. Accounts, profiles, timeline, photos, directories, attendance tracking - that's generic stuff not specific to churches. And verses are - technically - just articles. From a quick glance it seems it could be fairly easily adapted for use even by non-religious organizations (say, clubs) with mostly basic UI text editing, so possibility of use by mosques seems even more trivial.

What if my church is called a mosque?

by maga 12y ago

What if my church is called a mosque?

Or a temple, synagogue, cathedral, monastery, abbey, tabernacle, or center? "Church" is just the generic English word for "place of worship".

sandyarmstrong 12y ago
I don't think any non-Christian in the United States would agree with this. Not that there's anything wrong with sticking to a particular audience.
- tptacek 12y ago
  One of the largest synagogues in Chicago asks people to contact its "church representative" to place advertising in its bulletin. You're much more right than I am, though. Certainly, non-Christian faiths in the US don't use the term "church" by default.
enraged_camel 12y ago
>>"Church" is just the generic English word for "place of worship". It definitely is not. I have no idea where you even came up with this. Heck, there are even groups of Christians who object to the use of the word "church" to mean place of worship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_worship#Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_worship#Christianity
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  "Church" definitely is the generic English word for place of (particularly, Christian) worship (or, similarly, for the actual worship services), largely as the result of it being the word used by the religious groups that were dominant throughout the entire evolution of modern English for their places of worship. Yes, there are certain groups that object to that for etymological reasons because "church" also is the English word for the body of believers, and who don't use the word that way, but that doesn't make it any less a normal (and, in fact, the primary) meaning the word has in English.
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    >>"Church" definitely is the generic English word for place of (particularly, Christian) worship Not particularly. Only. As in, the word "church" only refers to Christian places of worship. Honestly it is pretty bizarre that you and tptacek are claiming otherwise. Maybe we're talking past each other. I just don't know any Muslims who say "I'm going to the church tomorrow," or any Buddhists say "I was at the church yesterday". I also don't know of any Christians who refer to synagogues as "churches." Now, if you are saying that "church" means any Christian place of worship - as in, people don't differentiate between church and cathedral, which are different things - then yes, I can agree with that. But that's not how I read your comments.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      If both sides of this debate are in some way correct, it's clear that the "church is a Christian term" side of the debate is more correct, so if just getting that on the table and stipulating it to be true ends an unproductive discussion: it is so stipulated.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > As in, the word "church" only refers to Christian places of worship. That's not correct; e.g., the first definition from the full definitions at m-w.com is "a building for public and especially Christian worship". In practice, there is more to it than that -- its not uncommon to be used generically and inclusively for place of worship, but you'd never (except through ignorance) use it for a specific place of worship except consistently with the usage of the group for whom it is a place of worship. (But the groups who use it specifically for their places of worhsip is also not the same as "Christian" -- it includes many, but not all, Christian groups as well as some, mostly newer, non-Christian groups.) More relevant to the thread: the use of "church" doesn't seem to be about a place of worship, anyway, its about a body of believers, which is a use of the term which is somewhat less divisive, though still has the same generic for unspecified religions (though "congregation" would probably be better) and specific for some, mostly Christian, religions. So, its not an unreasonable single-word term to use in explaining the function of a generic product, though the complexities of the use and the emotional attachment that goes with naming issues around religion may make it problematic. Though, really, the name ("OneBody") of the product is far more of a specifically Christian reference than the word "church" in its description of purpose. > Now, if you are saying that "church" means any Christian place of worship - as in, people don't differentiate between church and cathedral, which are different things Well, this is far off the point of even this subthread, but the set of cathedrals is a proper subset of the set of churches in the way both terms are used by most groups that use the former term at all. That is a cathedral is a church that is also the seat of a bishop. So even outside of the generic sense, its proper to refer to a cathedral as a church.
- dspillett 12y ago
  I agree, unless specifically qualified otherwise (such as "the church of the giant spaghetti monster" or "church of scientology") I would assume that the word church relates to a Christian place or group or one one of the many off-shoots (and a quick check of a dictionary seems to support that). But... > there are even groups of Christians who object to That proves nothing though. For any X you can find a group calling themselves Christian who strongly object to X, many Christians think they "own" the word and concept of marriage and have the right to define exactly what it means, and so forth...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
DonHopkins 12y ago
In the same sense that "Caucasian" is just the generic English word for "human being", and "heterosexual" is just the generic English word for "acceptable lifestyle".

timmorgan 12y ago

The software is definitely Christian church focused because that's where we first built it, but no reason it couldn't be adapted for other uses!

maga 12y ago
I was more interested in your personal feelings about it, since the license doesn't forbid this scenario. I'm glad you have positive attitude toward it. Great work, Tim, thank you for it! Although I'm personally long lost for any church or shrine, I'm glad that local communities now have one more good tool to cooperate.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

kcmarshall 12y ago

Your point is well-made. Language is very important on religious websites. My church used an online directory from a commercial provider which had fairly obvious opinions about the appropriate mix of genders in a family. Their opinion was directly opposite that of our congregations and ultimately we dropped the system in favor of another.

incision 12y ago

Fork and run sed - such is the beauty of OSS. I just sent this a non-technical friend whose 'church is called a mosque'. I'm sure he'd be able to figure this out and I'm sure you could too. No need to be disingenuous.

maga 12y ago
It's a hypothetical question. Don't be hasty.

maerF0x0 12y ago

You could upgrade it with an internationalization language and convert Christianese to Islamicist language .

drdaeman 12y ago

From a quick glance, the software - while being marketed as one for churches - isn't really religious. Accounts, profiles, timeline, photos, directories, attendance tracking - that's generic stuff not specific to churches. And verses are - technically - just articles. From a quick glance it seems it could be fairly easily adapted for use even by non-religious organizations (say, clubs) with mostly basic UI text editing, so possibility of use by mosques seems even more trivial.