4 ms·

> "Without enforcing proper merge behavior on both sides, zipper merge just becomes a big Prisoners' Dilemma game with a few defectors screwing all of the coope

by john_b 12y ago

> "Without enforcing proper merge behavior on both sides, zipper merge just becomes a big Prisoners' Dilemma game with a few defectors screwing all of the cooperators." Except unlike prisoner's dilemma, it's not a zero (or negative) sum game. The entire traffic flow can speed up if zipper merging is done. The "late mergers" don't have to risk losing their game of "chicken" while the "vigilantes" don't have to deal with the reckless maneuvers of some of the former. People don't do zipper merging because people are human and drive emotionally [1]. The stereotypes of the conservative early merger claiming the moral high ground and the reckless late merger doing anything to save a few minutes are the cultural results of this mentality. [1] Another example is the special breed of driver who stops the traffic flow on a major road (which has the right of way) to let someone on a minor cross road or parking lot exit onto the major road, thus inconveniencing everyone behind them for the self satisfaction of having helped the one person they can see.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ics 12y ago
> [...] inconveniencing everyone behind them for the self satisfaction of having helped the one person they can see. Or because you know that otherwise they'll be at that crossing for the next hour if nobody's willing to let them by. Perhaps there are some funny allusions to net neutrality to be made here...
- dionidium 12y ago
  Just because you want to turn left, doesn't mean you have to sit helpless waiting to do so. You're allowed to turn right and locate a safe place to turn around.
  - ics 12y ago
    I have sympathy for left-turners in particularly busy intersections where there is no turn light. Driving in NYC, you pretty much have to nudge as close to the opposing lane as you can until the light turns yellow/red and you can scoot yourself out of gridlock. Furthermore, you must account for streets which are one way, too narrow, full, or active to stop and turn around. However, this was not the situation I was really talking about at all. The scenario I had in mind while writing my post is that of the local road which crosses a major stretch of highway. Such highways might be an actual interstate, a busy two-lane highway, etc. One of the worst types of road to cross is the one that is far too wide for its own good– an ambitious 6-lane road with not enough traffic to ever be full (Trenholm Road in SC, ahem), but enough so that drivers spread out across all lanes and make crossing very annoying sometimes. There are parts of the Taconic (NY) that pretty bad to cross, though I'm usually the one on the highway. The local cross sometimes gets backed up 5-10 cars, 2-3 of which are stuck in the median. Getting on the highway or going around by going the next town can add 10+ miles. Letting someone cross by slowing down a bit and changing lanes is not, in my opinion, a smug assault on the efficiency of those driving on the highway... it's just something a few people do when they recognize that nothing is very efficient anyway. (Note that I haven't said much about safety because it was only a small part of their comment, and not the part I was responding to. I hope it's clear that I am not advocating for people to test fate by slamming their brakes to let someone curtsy across the pavement.)
SoftwareMaven 12y ago
WRT to your footnote, I also can't count the number of times I've seen that person on the side street come into traffic and get t-boned by the car that didn't stop in the next lane over. Letting people cross traffic like that isn't just illegal, it's downright dangerous[1]. As a motorcycle rider, few situations scare me more than seeing a lane of stopped traffic next to a clear lane. 1. The same thing applies to stopping to let people turn left across traffic, where the left lane of oncoming traffic is stopped and the right lane is clear.
jamesbritt 12y ago
[1] Another example is the special breed of driver who stops the traffic flow on a major road (which has the right of way) to let someone on a minor cross road or parking lot exit onto the major road, thus inconveniencing everyone behind them for the self satisfaction of having helped the one person they can see. This is similar to the person on a grocery checkout line who lets someone cut in front of them; they are also putting that person ahead of every other person behind them the line. It's an interesting situation; people feel they are doing the right thing yet apparently never stop to think how they are imposing their decision on others. There's a blind-spot of sorts regarding the larger effects of their actions.

by john_b 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ics 12y ago

> [...] inconveniencing everyone behind them for the self satisfaction of having helped the one person they can see. Or because you know that otherwise they'll be at that crossing for the next hour if nobody's willing to let them by. Perhaps there are some funny allusions to net neutrality to be made here...

dionidium 12y ago
Just because you want to turn left, doesn't mean you have to sit helpless waiting to do so. You're allowed to turn right and locate a safe place to turn around.
- ics 12y ago
  I have sympathy for left-turners in particularly busy intersections where there is no turn light. Driving in NYC, you pretty much have to nudge as close to the opposing lane as you can until the light turns yellow/red and you can scoot yourself out of gridlock. Furthermore, you must account for streets which are one way, too narrow, full, or active to stop and turn around. However, this was not the situation I was really talking about at all. The scenario I had in mind while writing my post is that of the local road which crosses a major stretch of highway. Such highways might be an actual interstate, a busy two-lane highway, etc. One of the worst types of road to cross is the one that is far too wide for its own good– an ambitious 6-lane road with not enough traffic to ever be full (Trenholm Road in SC, ahem), but enough so that drivers spread out across all lanes and make crossing very annoying sometimes. There are parts of the Taconic (NY) that pretty bad to cross, though I'm usually the one on the highway. The local cross sometimes gets backed up 5-10 cars, 2-3 of which are stuck in the median. Getting on the highway or going around by going the next town can add 10+ miles. Letting someone cross by slowing down a bit and changing lanes is not, in my opinion, a smug assault on the efficiency of those driving on the highway... it's just something a few people do when they recognize that nothing is very efficient anyway. (Note that I haven't said much about safety because it was only a small part of their comment, and not the part I was responding to. I hope it's clear that I am not advocating for people to test fate by slamming their brakes to let someone curtsy across the pavement.)

SoftwareMaven 12y ago

WRT to your footnote, I also can't count the number of times I've seen that person on the side street come into traffic and get t-boned by the car that didn't stop in the next lane over. Letting people cross traffic like that isn't just illegal, it's downright dangerous[1]. As a motorcycle rider, few situations scare me more than seeing a lane of stopped traffic next to a clear lane. 1. The same thing applies to stopping to let people turn left across traffic, where the left lane of oncoming traffic is stopped and the right lane is clear.

jamesbritt 12y ago

[1] Another example is the special breed of driver who stops the traffic flow on a major road (which has the right of way) to let someone on a minor cross road or parking lot exit onto the major road, thus inconveniencing everyone behind them for the self satisfaction of having helped the one person they can see. This is similar to the person on a grocery checkout line who lets someone cut in front of them; they are also putting that person ahead of every other person behind them the line. It's an interesting situation; people feel they are doing the right thing yet apparently never stop to think how they are imposing their decision on others. There's a blind-spot of sorts regarding the larger effects of their actions.