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Can anyone explain why an ISP would push back Netflix installing one of these boxes? Does the ISP want Netflix service congestion to better sell its own media a

by JTon 12y ago

Can anyone explain why an ISP would push back Netflix installing one of these boxes? Does the ISP want Netflix service congestion to better sell its own media assets/distribution (i.e. cable TV)?

osi 12y ago
From the operator of a smaller ISP: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2014/07/search/bmV0ZmxpeA/sort/time_rev/page/1/entry/0:7/20140711175317:C1A2027E-0945-11E4-9E99-FF13B5412E71/ http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2014/07/search/bmV...
- acdha 12y ago
  That's Brett Glass, though, who is … opinionated. It's a good idea to read the entire thread for responses from a number of other network operators as well as some Netflix technical staff: http://seclists.org/nanog/2014/Jul/index.html#265 http://seclists.org/nanog/2014/Jul/index.html#265
  - osi 12y ago
    thanks for the nanog tip. been awhile since i've read that firehose :)
tobz 12y ago
Based on the blog posts by Level 3 -- how much internal capacity Comcast / Verizon say they have versus what Level 3 sees for utilization at their peering points with both ISPs -- I would have to assume "yes".
- dragontamer 12y ago
  Can you please post a link? This sounds very interesting...
  - k3oni 12y ago
    Here's a link to one of the blog posts: http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accidental-mea-culpa/ http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accident...
wmf 12y ago
Less conspiratorially, if they can maximize profit by holding out for payment I guess that's what they'll do.
jsz0 12y ago
It may very well be in their best interest to give NetFlix free co-location space but because of the PR battle this has become kind of a proxy war for bigger issues. ISPs have a legitimate concern now that if NetFlix 'wins' the PR battle they will have a long line of companies knocking on their door demanding peering arrangements and free co-location. It's also worth noting ISPs could rent out 4RU of space in their facilities to other companies for way more than $0 and often do.
liveoneggs 12y ago
because they own a competing service and don't care? http://www.redboxinstant.com/ http://www.redboxinstant.com/
michaelt 12y ago
Let's say I have something that costs me $100, and I know for a fact that (a) if I give it to you, it will make you $1000 richer and (b) you don't have access to any substitute, so you either pay the price I ask or go without. This is what game theorists call a 'pure bargaining' [1] problem:- reaching a deal makes $900, but we have to decide how to split that between us. Both of us want as big a share as possible, but our main leverage is refusing to reach a deal. In this situation, I am the ISP; installing a Netflix box costs me $100 for power, bandwidth, whatever. Netflix are the ones that make $1000, as installing the box lets them get more customers. ISPs refuse to install boxes because they want more money than Netflix is offering, and refusing to install is the only way to get it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargaining

by JTon 12y ago

Can anyone explain why an ISP would push back Netflix installing one of these boxes? Does the ISP want Netflix service congestion to better sell its own media assets/distribution (i.e. cable TV)?

osi 12y ago

From the operator of a smaller ISP: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2014/07/search/bmV0ZmxpeA/sort/time_rev/page/1/entry/0:7/20140711175317:C1A2027E-0945-11E4-9E99-FF13B5412E71/ http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/2014/07/search/bmV...

acdha 12y ago
That's Brett Glass, though, who is … opinionated. It's a good idea to read the entire thread for responses from a number of other network operators as well as some Netflix technical staff: http://seclists.org/nanog/2014/Jul/index.html#265 http://seclists.org/nanog/2014/Jul/index.html#265
- osi 12y ago
  thanks for the nanog tip. been awhile since i've read that firehose :)

tobz 12y ago

Based on the blog posts by Level 3 -- how much internal capacity Comcast / Verizon say they have versus what Level 3 sees for utilization at their peering points with both ISPs -- I would have to assume "yes".

dragontamer 12y ago
Can you please post a link? This sounds very interesting...
- k3oni 12y ago
  Here's a link to one of the blog posts: http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accidental-mea-culpa/ http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accident...

wmf 12y ago

Less conspiratorially, if they can maximize profit by holding out for payment I guess that's what they'll do.

jsz0 12y ago

It may very well be in their best interest to give NetFlix free co-location space but because of the PR battle this has become kind of a proxy war for bigger issues. ISPs have a legitimate concern now that if NetFlix 'wins' the PR battle they will have a long line of companies knocking on their door demanding peering arrangements and free co-location. It's also worth noting ISPs could rent out 4RU of space in their facilities to other companies for way more than $0 and often do.

liveoneggs 12y ago

because they own a competing service and don't care? http://www.redboxinstant.com/ http://www.redboxinstant.com/

michaelt 12y ago

Let's say I have something that costs me $100, and I know for a fact that (a) if I give it to you, it will make you $1000 richer and (b) you don't have access to any substitute, so you either pay the price I ask or go without. This is what game theorists call a 'pure bargaining' [1] problem:- reaching a deal makes $900, but we have to decide how to split that between us. Both of us want as big a share as possible, but our main leverage is refusing to reach a deal. In this situation, I am the ISP; installing a Netflix box costs me $100 for power, bandwidth, whatever. Netflix are the ones that make $1000, as installing the box lets them get more customers. ISPs refuse to install boxes because they want more money than Netflix is offering, and refusing to install is the only way to get it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargaining