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More to the point (for the peanut gallery): I'll use anamax's verbiage throughout, despite the general silliness of his rhetorical framing. Firstly: the notion
by frig 17y ago
More to the point (for the peanut gallery): I'll use anamax's verbiage throughout, despite the general silliness of his rhetorical framing.
Firstly: the notion that there's something absurd in my being able to profit from work some pharma research did in an earlier era is itself absurd; if you really believe that under no circumstance is that warranted, you wind either being against patent expiry at all (b/c why would it suddenly become ok just b/c some years have passed) -- which is a tenable but very minority position -- or you have to concede that there's no general principle against such situations, at which point we can get to arguing details.
That's why it's LOL-worthy; it's already the case that it's totally fine to "profit" from work done earlier without compensating the person who did it, provided that the work was done sufficiently long ago (so as to have fallen out of whatever ip bracket it fell into)...which means the argument-from-principles is just ignorant, and the real argument is "do you consider exigent circumstances to also justify such "profiting" from previously-performed labor in the same way that "the passage of time" justifies the same, or not.
Reasonable people can disagree on the latter topic; arguing that my argument somehow fails because it violates a principle that is also violated by all the world's systems of intellectual property is a position you can take, at the expense of revealing yourself to be holding a position contrary to pretty much all the serious thought on IP in general.
But let's move along. The notion of "withholding his labor" is manifestly silly: he created knowledge, knowledge is not excludable once distributed, so there's no intrinsic ability to "deny" future-time use of already-produced-and-distributed-knowledge...whatever ability Joe has to "deny his labor" in this specific case is a gift from those he would deny it to.
This makes the programmers-versus-ditch-diggers a red herring: programmers get paid what they do because they can deny their labor if they're not paid a satisfactory wage (they stop working, it's that easy); a knowledge-producer can't deny use of already-distributed knowledge in anything like the same way, and depends on the state's willingness to enforce certain rules for what capacity to "deny labor" that way.
Which of course means that yes it is imprudent not to mollify righteous thugs in other nations; those righteous thugs are the means by which a pharma company would be "denying its labor" in that nation, and failing to strike a mutually-agreeable bargain leaves you unlikely to be able to do any denying, at all.
That's reality and that's the scope of options within pharmas operate (and indeed they know this probably better than you and have made their choices, etc.); you are free to dislike it and find it unpleasing -- perhaps curse fate for not evolving a cerebral cortex with a functioning drm system -- but making choices based on the actual nature of reality is probably the only way to make good choices short of luck.
- anamax 17y ago> The notion of "withholding his labor" is manifestly silly: he created knowledge Said knowledge is the result of his labor, just as a ditch is the result of a ditch digger's labor. No one feels entitled to a ditch, yet you feel entitled to knowledge. And yes, the ditch digger also built on the work of others. I want people to disclose knowledge, that's why I want them to be able to profit from doing so. Note that said disclosure is why Joe was able to produce the knowledge to which you feel entitled....
- frig 17y agoYou are increasingly nonsensical; it's also true that if wishes were ponies than beggars would ride, but what of it? I don't feel entitled to Joe's knowledge; in the hypothetical scenario I already have Joe's knowledge, at which point why yes I do feel "entitled" to make use of said knowledge, unless there's a good reason not to make use of it. I tell you what: if you can explain to me the concepts of: - rivalrous and nonrivalrous goods - excludable and non-excludable goods ...and then either: - explain how both ditches and knowledge share an identical classification along both of those axes, thereby properly being treated together - or explain not only that your little theory doesn't recognize distinctions about the above but also why your little theory ignores the distinction ...then I'll walk away from this with the sense that you're someone with a rational outlook that just happens to disagree substantially with mine, and call it a day. Otherwise I'm going to conclude you've just gotten a lot of ego attached to a self-image as a defender of some moral order or other, which feat you regularly accomplish by throwing totem-words until people quit; they get bored, you feel like a winnar.
- anamax 17y agoYou seem to think that other people are obliged to accept your premises and rules. You're wrong. It's easy to distinguish knowledge from ditches. The question is whether and when distinguishing various aspects makes sense. Your latest rant boils down to "here's a set of rules and definitions that leads to the conclusion that I like, so prove me wrong with them or I'll declare victory". Whatever floats your boat. The fact remains you "have" Joe's knowledge because it was disclosed under certain terms. You seem to think that you're not bound by those terms. That's like agreeing to pay Sam the ditch digger over time and then stiffing him after a couple of payments.