4 ms·

Having an official explanation what the processes do is very welcome, but this still leaves out the question whether there is a way to access these daemons with

by pilif 12y ago

Having an official explanation what the processes do is very welcome, but this still leaves out the question whether there is a way to access these daemons without prior user approval. And if there is, the question is, who has access to that method and how well that access is protected (from rogue employees with access to keys for example) At this point, I would still consider all data on my phone to be accessible to law enforcement and criminals (assuming they have stolen the keys) provided they have physical access to the device. I'm basing the data stored on the device on that assumption and, for example, keep ssh keys separately encrypted and don't store the pass phrase.

ghshephard 12y ago
If you don't use a complex passcode, then they do have access to all your files/mail/contacts once they have physical access to your device. Apple has always made that abundantly clear, and it's how they provide Law Enforcement access to your files -it's trivial to brute force a 4-digit password once they've remote mounted your file system (which they can do once they have physical access to your device) The great security concept behind TouchID isn't so much that it's using biometric login, but that it makes using a secure passcode viable. Nobody is willing to type in a 15 character password every time they unlock their iPhone - but most security people are willing to do it during bootup, and then use touch ID to submit their passcode the rest of the time.
- dunham 12y ago
  If you want an intermediate level of security, you can use a longer, numerical passcode, and the device will give you a number pad instead of a keyboard to type it in. Also brute-forcing must be done on the device because the UID key is involved, so you either need to jailbreak without erasing stuff or have Apple's keys (which allow you to jailbreak without erasing stuff).
  - ghshephard 12y ago
    Yes - at 5 passwords/second (http://www.elcomsoft.com/ios_forensic_toolkit_faq.html http://www.elcomsoft.com/ios_forensic_toolkit_faq.html) a six digit password would take about 3 days to recover, 7 digits would be 23 days, and eight digits at 3/4 of a year would mean you would have to be a very interesting target.
    - LeoPanthera 12y ago
      I use 9 digits, as well as being significantly "secure enough" it's also a conveniently easy length to remember, as three groups of three digits - nnn nnn nnn
- pilif 12y ago
  > The great security concept behind TouchID isn't so much that it's using biometric login, but that it makes using a secure passcode viable yes. Which is I'm a very happy user of TouchID. My passphrase is 25 characters long, containing letters, numbers and even symbols. I furthermore hope that I'll be able to recognize threats early which will allow me to shut off the phone quickly enough, forcing a passcode entry. That's beside my point though: If law enforcement and/or criminals get to use these diagnostic services without my passcode being entered, then all of this is moot because they would just access the data and not bother with the passphrase to begin with. The article in apples knowledge base does neither confirm nor deny that there is access to these diagnostic services that doesn't require the phone to be unlocked, so I assume that there is a backdoor and I have planned my usage accordingly.
  - mnem 12y ago
    The devices have to be paired though (with the trusted computer thing), and to complete that pairing process you need to unlock your phone with the passcode, if it is locked. If it's unlocked you just have to poke a dialog button, but if it's unlocked you're screwed anyway :)
    - pilif 12y ago
      Yes. That's the official method. What I'm concerned about is the backdoor that allows pairing without previously unlocking the device. Apple does neither confirm nor deny it exists, so we have to assume it exists. And when it exists, it could have been given to various law enforcement agencies or stolen by criminals which now use it for identity theft. Which is why I prefer my hardware not to be backdoored.

by pilif 12y ago

ghshephard 12y ago

If you don't use a complex passcode, then they do have access to all your files/mail/contacts once they have physical access to your device. Apple has always made that abundantly clear, and it's how they provide Law Enforcement access to your files -it's trivial to brute force a 4-digit password once they've remote mounted your file system (which they can do once they have physical access to your device) The great security concept behind TouchID isn't so much that it's using biometric login, but that it makes using a secure passcode viable. Nobody is willing to type in a 15 character password every time they unlock their iPhone - but most security people are willing to do it during bootup, and then use touch ID to submit their passcode the rest of the time.

dunham 12y ago
If you want an intermediate level of security, you can use a longer, numerical passcode, and the device will give you a number pad instead of a keyboard to type it in. Also brute-forcing must be done on the device because the UID key is involved, so you either need to jailbreak without erasing stuff or have Apple's keys (which allow you to jailbreak without erasing stuff).
- ghshephard 12y ago
  Yes - at 5 passwords/second (http://www.elcomsoft.com/ios_forensic_toolkit_faq.html http://www.elcomsoft.com/ios_forensic_toolkit_faq.html) a six digit password would take about 3 days to recover, 7 digits would be 23 days, and eight digits at 3/4 of a year would mean you would have to be a very interesting target.
  - LeoPanthera 12y ago
    I use 9 digits, as well as being significantly "secure enough" it's also a conveniently easy length to remember, as three groups of three digits - nnn nnn nnn
pilif 12y ago
> The great security concept behind TouchID isn't so much that it's using biometric login, but that it makes using a secure passcode viable yes. Which is I'm a very happy user of TouchID. My passphrase is 25 characters long, containing letters, numbers and even symbols. I furthermore hope that I'll be able to recognize threats early which will allow me to shut off the phone quickly enough, forcing a passcode entry. That's beside my point though: If law enforcement and/or criminals get to use these diagnostic services without my passcode being entered, then all of this is moot because they would just access the data and not bother with the passphrase to begin with. The article in apples knowledge base does neither confirm nor deny that there is access to these diagnostic services that doesn't require the phone to be unlocked, so I assume that there is a backdoor and I have planned my usage accordingly.
- mnem 12y ago
  The devices have to be paired though (with the trusted computer thing), and to complete that pairing process you need to unlock your phone with the passcode, if it is locked. If it's unlocked you just have to poke a dialog button, but if it's unlocked you're screwed anyway :)
  - pilif 12y ago
    Yes. That's the official method. What I'm concerned about is the backdoor that allows pairing without previously unlocking the device. Apple does neither confirm nor deny it exists, so we have to assume it exists. And when it exists, it could have been given to various law enforcement agencies or stolen by criminals which now use it for identity theft. Which is why I prefer my hardware not to be backdoored.