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I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, a

by jarin 12y ago

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging fruit. Of course, I think we all need to keep working to end this kind of harassment. We all know it exists, and most of us guys disapprove of it, but few of us are taking the extra step of saying "that's not ok, dude" when it happens. In the meantime, I've had some pretty hurtful/maddening stuff directed at me in the past by a group of people online, and I learned that you either take the Phil Fish route and flame out, or you have to find some way to distance yourself emotionally from the bullshit or ignore it. It's fucked up, but you have to protect your sanity until the problem is fixed (which it might never be). Edit: Unrelated to the topic, but it's interesting how this comment got a large number of upvotes before the downvote brigade started trickling in. I'm not anti-feminist here, folks. Just trying to elaborate on the discussion and hopefully learn some things.

rayiner 12y ago
Someone calling you a pencil dick doesn't cut you. Its just words, not grounded in anything the speaker knows about you. What's scary about rape threats is that it points out an uncomfortable truth: the 95th percentile women is about as strong in the upper body as the 5th percentile man. The guy making the rape threat knows that and so does the target. Its backed by reality in a way most comments directed at men aren't.
- Gracana 12y ago
  It's also backed up by a culture that tells women they're responsible for their own assault/rape/harassment, so defying these threats means you're also defying the people who say it's your own fault, go somewhere else, you're asking for it, etc.
Iftheshoefits 12y ago
There is a nontrivial difference between the modes of attack you note that work better on men and those that work better on women to achieve a psychological impact. The difference is significant--for women, the difference is a matter of (literally) being physically assaulted or even killed. Men face that kind of threat far less from attacks against our masculinity, loyalty, etc. The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree. Mean deal with threats of physical violence all the time. Including actual attacks, which is far more common between men. They just don't deal with rape threats/attacks.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    I don't. Where in the software development industry do men deal with threats of physical violence "all the time"? On average, men may deal with more attacks, but that's comparing people in prison with game developers, which is fallacious, to say the least.
    - cobrausn 12y ago
      We are specifically discussing the games industry, which has a much higher than average rate of bullshit that gets hurled at the devs from across the internet. There are links scattered all over this discussion thread that show that. If the argument is that women receive more than men on average and that the threats include sexual violence (which it rarely does against men), I won't argue that.
    - tomp 12y ago
      > but that's comparing people in prison Not really. Most of my male friends, including myself, have been assaulted (beaten-up) before turning 21 - some in broad daylight, in the city centre, or with people around them. Most, if not all, of the assailants weren't punished (or even reported - it's obvious the police can't really do anything about it). I don't have any similar statistics about my female friends. If they were raped, many would probably not share that fact as willingly as my male friends did. Still, I wishfully believe that not all of them have been raped/assaulted.
arrrg 12y ago
I do see women’s femininity (or lack of masculinity, actually!), loyalty, especially abilities, work ethic and/or integrity attacked all the time. I don’t really understand why you are under the impression that doesn’t happen to women. The objectification and threats of (sexual) violence happen in addition to that. Again, you seem to argue that there is some kind of balance in harassment and both men and women receive the same amount. That is not true at all.
- jarin 12y ago
  I'm not arguing that one bit. I'm trying to have a conversation about WHY there is an imbalance.
- briantakita 12y ago
  Disclaimer: I'm male & this is my opinion. All things being equal (content, credentials of speaker, etc), a woman speaking tends to get more attention than a male. People are naturally more attracted to the feminine than the masculine. Exuding feminine energy draws people in. This expression may or may not be conscious. It's at least partially conscious though. It often works to that person's advantage to look good. People are going to react to this feminine energy who also has something to say. I understand that it's not fair to emphasize the feminine, however we are driven more by emotions than by rational thought (even "rational" thought tends to be driven by emotion). Another angle is harassment toward men does happen and is simply not talked about, laughed off, and downplayed. It's not useful to keep score and categorize who harassment happens to. If you are a victim of harassment, does it matter that you fall within a majority or minority of the demographics?
cobrausn 12y ago
I follow a few twitter accounts of a few prominent game devs (both male and female), and I've noticed that the more attention (i.e., followers) they have, the more regularly you can expect to see threats and insults as a reply to practically anything they say. I think the same kind of people that would troll a male dev by calling him a 'fag' would probably be the same kind that would issue a rape threat to a female dev, and probably think there is nothing wrong with either. On an related note, if I do ever make games, I won't have a public twitter account, facebook account, or personal blog. Something about the nature of that industry just brings out the worst in people.
eli 12y ago
Do male video game employees have people texting them death threats with their home address too?
- cobrausn 12y ago
  http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/23/game-developers-get-a-lot-of-death-threats/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/23/game-devel... "Sometimes, things get worse than just angry emails and tweets – one developer said that the threats that made him lose sleep were the ones that involved his children. Sometimes people start saying that they know a developer’s home address. Bowling says that he started receiving suspicious packages – never a good sign in the modern era."
- jarin 12y ago
  Yes. Probably not in proportion, but it does happen regularly. http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-... http://iphoenixdown.com/2013/08/16/video-games-and-death-threats-a-plague-in-the-industry/ http://iphoenixdown.com/2013/08/16/video-games-and-death-thr...
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

by jarin 12y ago

rayiner 12y ago

Someone calling you a pencil dick doesn't cut you. Its just words, not grounded in anything the speaker knows about you. What's scary about rape threats is that it points out an uncomfortable truth: the 95th percentile women is about as strong in the upper body as the 5th percentile man. The guy making the rape threat knows that and so does the target. Its backed by reality in a way most comments directed at men aren't.

Gracana 12y ago
It's also backed up by a culture that tells women they're responsible for their own assault/rape/harassment, so defying these threats means you're also defying the people who say it's your own fault, go somewhere else, you're asking for it, etc.

Iftheshoefits 12y ago

There is a nontrivial difference between the modes of attack you note that work better on men and those that work better on women to achieve a psychological impact. The difference is significant--for women, the difference is a matter of (literally) being physically assaulted or even killed. Men face that kind of threat far less from attacks against our masculinity, loyalty, etc. The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree.

coldtea 12y ago
>The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree. Mean deal with threats of physical violence all the time. Including actual attacks, which is far more common between men. They just don't deal with rape threats/attacks.
- icebraining 12y ago
  I don't. Where in the software development industry do men deal with threats of physical violence "all the time"? On average, men may deal with more attacks, but that's comparing people in prison with game developers, which is fallacious, to say the least.
  - cobrausn 12y ago
    We are specifically discussing the games industry, which has a much higher than average rate of bullshit that gets hurled at the devs from across the internet. There are links scattered all over this discussion thread that show that. If the argument is that women receive more than men on average and that the threats include sexual violence (which it rarely does against men), I won't argue that.
  - tomp 12y ago
    > but that's comparing people in prison Not really. Most of my male friends, including myself, have been assaulted (beaten-up) before turning 21 - some in broad daylight, in the city centre, or with people around them. Most, if not all, of the assailants weren't punished (or even reported - it's obvious the police can't really do anything about it). I don't have any similar statistics about my female friends. If they were raped, many would probably not share that fact as willingly as my male friends did. Still, I wishfully believe that not all of them have been raped/assaulted.

arrrg 12y ago

I do see women’s femininity (or lack of masculinity, actually!), loyalty, especially abilities, work ethic and/or integrity attacked all the time. I don’t really understand why you are under the impression that doesn’t happen to women. The objectification and threats of (sexual) violence happen in addition to that. Again, you seem to argue that there is some kind of balance in harassment and both men and women receive the same amount. That is not true at all.

jarin 12y ago
I'm not arguing that one bit. I'm trying to have a conversation about WHY there is an imbalance.
briantakita 12y ago
Disclaimer: I'm male & this is my opinion. All things being equal (content, credentials of speaker, etc), a woman speaking tends to get more attention than a male. People are naturally more attracted to the feminine than the masculine. Exuding feminine energy draws people in. This expression may or may not be conscious. It's at least partially conscious though. It often works to that person's advantage to look good. People are going to react to this feminine energy who also has something to say. I understand that it's not fair to emphasize the feminine, however we are driven more by emotions than by rational thought (even "rational" thought tends to be driven by emotion). Another angle is harassment toward men does happen and is simply not talked about, laughed off, and downplayed. It's not useful to keep score and categorize who harassment happens to. If you are a victim of harassment, does it matter that you fall within a majority or minority of the demographics?

cobrausn 12y ago

I follow a few twitter accounts of a few prominent game devs (both male and female), and I've noticed that the more attention (i.e., followers) they have, the more regularly you can expect to see threats and insults as a reply to practically anything they say. I think the same kind of people that would troll a male dev by calling him a 'fag' would probably be the same kind that would issue a rape threat to a female dev, and probably think there is nothing wrong with either. On an related note, if I do ever make games, I won't have a public twitter account, facebook account, or personal blog. Something about the nature of that industry just brings out the worst in people.

eli 12y ago

Do male video game employees have people texting them death threats with their home address too?

cobrausn 12y ago
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/23/game-developers-get-a-lot-of-death-threats/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/23/game-devel... "Sometimes, things get worse than just angry emails and tweets – one developer said that the threats that made him lose sleep were the ones that involved his children. Sometimes people start saying that they know a developer’s home address. Bowling says that he started receiving suspicious packages – never a good sign in the modern era."
jarin 12y ago
Yes. Probably not in proportion, but it does happen regularly. http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-... http://iphoenixdown.com/2013/08/16/video-games-and-death-threats-a-plague-in-the-industry/ http://iphoenixdown.com/2013/08/16/video-games-and-death-thr...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]