Presumably the alternative is web pages ? Well, I for one have just the opposite experience. Webpages, I develop them often, but I never get anywhere beyond a

Presumably the alternative is web pages ? Well, I for one have just the opposite experience. Webpages, I develop them often, but I never get anywhere beyond a basic, simple, ugly and unresponsive interface (meaning the server and client actually operate decently in sync without massive refresh times). Anything even remotely complex is just such a huge problem. Having elements move around, drawing complex graphs, ... Coverflow was trivial to implement in Delphi, and I've gotten various advanced interfaces going in C++ Builder as well. I've gotten games running in C++/Qt on linux in an afternoon flat. Making java games ... slower, but not a huge issue. When I was writing apps in C++/Delphi it was normal to have an inventory management app drag the various components into a representation of a warehouse. Now ? Textboxes, with javascript validations. Yes it works on phones (more often it doesn't because the UI won't fit), but it's just not comparable. The schedule optimization software was a tool where you dragged things into the schedule and the whole thing would do a live reoptimization for you. Now ? Send it off to the server, wait 3-5 seconds for it to calculate and ... Several departments have simply not switched away from the old windows apps, and to be honest, I understand why. It's all possible in javascript. But 1) at such a huge, huge computational cost. I could get a 3d rendered village going and walking through doom-style on my 486DX-2. I cannot draw that very same village on canvas on my 64G i7 haswell. Not even if I use the same amount of pixels. It just doesn't get up to the same framerate. Java can draw that village at 2560x1280 no problem. With C++, measuring framerate is useless, it's just stuck at 60 fps. Haskell can fucking do this. Javascript ... nope. I don't mind paying some CPU for an abstraction, but I find haskell to be over the edge of what is reasonable. To find javascript you'll probably have to jump entirely over, pass the elephants and look under the turtle. 2) it's full of surprises, and people's weird ideas about improving things. Canvas is a good example. I want a framebuffer. How do I do that on canvas ? Computers work by moving around framebuffers. Why do you give me this ugly canvas abstraction ? I don't want it ! Do I get a choice ? Nope. 3) Everything about javascript is just such a "we've just had the twenty-third co-committee agree on the pre-election parameters for the members of the committee to decide the color of the book we'll write the standard in" organisation. Nothing works. Nothing is really standard. Nothing lasts. 4) Complexity management. I can manage a 50000 line codebase in C++ or Java. I have worked on codebases that ran into the millions of lines of code. No problem (well, plenty of problems, but manageable). I will fully admit I cannot manage the complexities in a 1000-2000 line javascript program. Too many things interlock. There's no separation. There's no encapsulation. None of the complexity management techniques are there. And there's just no end to the stupid javascript bugs (you know operators not doing what you want. The most recent example : NaN + "NaN" = "NaNNaN". Someone kill me). 5) Compatibility. WTF. You have the javascript community being the main culprit here. No offence, but have these guys ever agreed for even 6 months on a way to design things ? And of course, all the libraries find themselves a "paradigm", meaning it's bloody hard to combine more than one of them in a project. And what do these projects add ? Nothing, really. AngularJS, the "favorite" for the last 4-5 months (which must mean Google's about to abandon it ?) is essentially a basic (and I mean BASIC) reporting toolkit. It's got the same sort of features. Oh look, AngularJS is indeed being replaced: https://www.google.com/events/io/io14videos/ba7e1bfe-3cbc-e311-b297-00155d5066d7 https://www.google.com/events/io/io14videos/ba7e1bfe-3cbc-e3... or will it be : https://www.google.com/events/io/io14videos/c1d65645-32b6-e311-8491-00155d5066d7 https://www.google.com/events/io/io14videos/c1d65645-32b6-e3... or maybe : http://facebook.github.io/react/ http://facebook.github.io/react/ All of these are obviously half-done rehashes of technologies that have existed for 20 years in windowing toolkits. Project polymer is essentially the idea of controls with properties, which you first found in apple's interface builder (afaik) and was popularized in visual basic 1.0 FOR DOS before I could safely walk around without a diaper. Dart ... well I don't know why anyone would want dart. Anything, anything at all beats javascript of course, but it does nothing to solve the massive problems of the platform that is the web. I learn every language I can find up to the point I can write basic apps in it, but I can find absolutely no reason whatsoever to start using dart beyond that. The few advantages dart does have are much better executed in GWT. And react, well react simply is the idea of combining code layout with it's behaviour ... popularized BEFORE I WAS BORN by object-oriented programming and the very first UI toolkits. React, I have to say, is actually pretty well executed though, and it really does hide some of the web platforms' idiocies. So there's at least that. But it's got nothing on, say, a QT app. And of course, the mere fact that all these things exist means that nothing can be recovered. You had an application written 1 year ago. You wrote a game 1-2 years ago ? Well it's probably in flash. You wrote it 3-5 years ago ? It's very likely that it's a java applet. And even if it was written in Javascript ... well, it's obviously not in AngularJS, so let's rewrite it ! What ? I have apps that I wrote when I was in highschool that are still running smoothly. And those do not qualify as old, good apps. One of the supermarket chains in Belgium (Colruyt) runs on a Borland Pascal 7.0 DOS client-server application. When you see cashiers using that application, you understand why they haven't upgraded. You can never even tell it's looking up something on a server, that's how fast it is.