4 ms·

Under the 13th Amendment, you don't have the right to sell yourself into slavery in the United States. That is, you can't sign a contract under which I pay your

Under the 13th Amendment, you don't have the right to sell yourself into slavery in the United States. That is, you can't sign a contract under which I pay your family $n and in return you work for me under conditions of slavery. Prohibitions on unpaid labor are an extension of this restriction on your freedom to enter into contract of your own free will.

cwan 17y ago
How is an unpaid internship anywhere close to being slavery? The unpaid intern can walk away at any time. Further, it's the choice of the unpaid intern - not their family as to whether or not to accept the choice.
- uopnuiyb 17y ago
  So in a recession if GM/Boeing/Walmart demand that all new hires work for no pay for their first year 'as intern trainees' that would be OK? If they fire these people on day 364 and get new trainees next year - that would be ok?
  - cwan 17y ago
    Would it surprise you to know that Walmart pays its entry level workers significantly higher than minimum wage? It's relevant because it shows companies like Walmart/Boeing/GM are not price setters / don't have as much control as you presume. Further, the "race to the bottom" in wages is often not desirable or in the interests of a firm. Sure I don't have a problem with the practice you describe, but I'm pretty sure they would being unable to find workers who care enough or are even productive and losing any good workers to others. The employment market doesn't operate in a vacuum.
  - defen 17y ago
    Why shouldn't they be allowed to? The hit to their reputation if they tried to pull a stunt like that would be far worse than the damage any law could do - they would never be able to hire new people again. You seem to presume that the law is the only thing keeping corporations in line.
    - apotheon 17y ago
      The truth, of course, is that the law is the only thing keeping corporations alive.
- olefoo 17y ago
  That description may apply in theory, but in practice the 'employer' wields considerable power over the relationship by how they describe their assessment of the worker.
  - apotheon 17y ago
    To the extent that's true, paying the worker doesn't change that at all.
doki_pen 17y ago
Freedom doesn't really come into the equation. Of course you can do work for free, that is your right. If your neighbor asked you to mow his lawn for free, there is no law to stop you from doing that work for him. Corporations aren't people though and have different rights. They don't enjoy the right to employ people free of charge.

cwan 17y ago

How is an unpaid internship anywhere close to being slavery? The unpaid intern can walk away at any time. Further, it's the choice of the unpaid intern - not their family as to whether or not to accept the choice.

uopnuiyb 17y ago
So in a recession if GM/Boeing/Walmart demand that all new hires work for no pay for their first year 'as intern trainees' that would be OK? If they fire these people on day 364 and get new trainees next year - that would be ok?
- cwan 17y ago
  Would it surprise you to know that Walmart pays its entry level workers significantly higher than minimum wage? It's relevant because it shows companies like Walmart/Boeing/GM are not price setters / don't have as much control as you presume. Further, the "race to the bottom" in wages is often not desirable or in the interests of a firm. Sure I don't have a problem with the practice you describe, but I'm pretty sure they would being unable to find workers who care enough or are even productive and losing any good workers to others. The employment market doesn't operate in a vacuum.
- defen 17y ago
  Why shouldn't they be allowed to? The hit to their reputation if they tried to pull a stunt like that would be far worse than the damage any law could do - they would never be able to hire new people again. You seem to presume that the law is the only thing keeping corporations in line.
  - apotheon 17y ago
    The truth, of course, is that the law is the only thing keeping corporations alive.
olefoo 17y ago
That description may apply in theory, but in practice the 'employer' wields considerable power over the relationship by how they describe their assessment of the worker.
- apotheon 17y ago
  To the extent that's true, paying the worker doesn't change that at all.

doki_pen 17y ago

Freedom doesn't really come into the equation. Of course you can do work for free, that is your right. If your neighbor asked you to mow his lawn for free, there is no law to stop you from doing that work for him. Corporations aren't people though and have different rights. They don't enjoy the right to employ people free of charge.