4 ms·

Satoshi wrote in the genesis block: The Times 03/Jan/ 2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks Bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to t

Satoshi wrote in the genesis block: The Times 03/Jan/ 2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks Bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to the banking system. > Storing value in an encrypted wallet on your computer is inconvenient to say the least It's possible to store Bitcoin on sheets of paper, or entirely in your brain, safely and securely. I get the distinct feeling you've never used Bitcoin before. Please, sign up for an account at Coinbase and buy $1000+ of BTC or otherwise put yourself in the shoes of someone who wants to buy a serious amount of coin before making these sorts of statements. Bitcoin isn't about being a PayPal competitor. It's money outside the State, always has been, always will be. Unless of course it is corrupted from the inside out, probably by whitewashed companies who are too afraid to embrace a great thing in spite of what regulators would like them to do.

sanswork 12y ago
>It's possible to store Bitcoin on sheets of paper The process for making a secure paper wallet is far from convenient and brain wallets are about the worst possible way to store bitcoin and are far from safe and secure. If you're going to get some please do not use a brain wallet.
- Cyther606 12y ago
  Numerous wallets make it dead simple to create a paper wallet. With Electrum, you just open the program and it automatically generates 12 words which you can write down on paper or learn by heart. It doesn't get much easier than that, and it's perfectly safe and secure to do.
  - sanswork 12y ago
    Dead simple but no more secure than just storing the file encrypted on your computer. Electrum is great and if you write down the words thats fine. If you try to memorize them without a backup there are a lot of events that can happen in your life that will lead to the total loss of your coins.
    - bdamm 12y ago
      Agreed. I'm looking for a LiveCD style paper-waller generator, do you know of one?
      - sanswork 12y ago
        I don't use paper wallets myself but any barebones linux bootcd/usb with https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org and BIP38 selected is the route I see most recommended.
        bdamm 12y ago
        Very convenient!
  - mbillie1 12y ago
    > It doesn't get much easier than that I think a lot of people would argue that sticking with their current system (banks, fiat currency, etc) is, in fact, much easier than that.
    - rockyleal 12y ago
      They are more familiar with the current system, but after you have done it for the first time, you realise that electrum is actually way easier than banks. People just think its harder, but it is not really.
      - sanswork 12y ago
        It's only easier if you ignore the part where you have to get bitcoin in the first place.
        Guvante 12y ago
        All the examples of "see Bitcoin isn't hard, here is $0.0005 worth" completely gloss over this point.
        Natanael_L 12y ago
        That's no fault of Bitcoin, however. Getting USD isn't magically easy either.
        dublinben 12y ago
        Sure it is. You can sit on a street corner and people will literally hand you physical cash. It doesn't get any easier than that.
        mrb 12y ago
        Someone merely held a Bitcoin address sign on TV and received coins from all over the world: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/1/5163926/one-college-football-sign-netted-22-bitcoins-for-enthusiast http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/1/5163926/one-college-footba... How awesome is that? It sure beats the reach of sitting on a street corner...
- dwaltrip 12y ago
  If you know what you are doing, brain wallets are very safe. However, if you don't, you might easily make a disastrous mistake. The casual user should not store coins in a brainwallet, but they can be quite useful.
  - sanswork 12y ago
    If you know what you are doing you can get enough entropy that is true but there is still a lot of things that can happy in your life that will affect your memory but not be life ending. In those cases without a backup you'll lose your coins.
headgasket 12y ago
I believe you are philosophically right about the idea of bitcoin. The cat is out of the bag: there is a distributed alternative to the global banking system. BTC might be corrupted, but the idea is not. Another spin on the POW and on the mass distribution mechanism, and the regulators might have a serious problem on their hands. Lots of ifs.
sanderjd 12y ago
I have bought and sold a few hundreds of USD worth of BTC and even used a few tens of USD of it for transactions, and while you're definitely right about the intent and philosophy of BTC, I agree with your parent comment that what is actually exciting about BTC (or something inspired by it) is its potential as the lowest-friction way to buy things digitally. The sooner BTC shakes its crypto-libertarian culture the better. Right the vast majority of people in the world (at least those who've heard of it) know it as this weird, unsavory, and probably criminal thing, instead of as the backbone of the new cheaper and much more convenient way of buying things and moving money around. If it can still be used by die-hards like you to protect themselves from the State, all the better, but that part of it is never going to be of much interest to most people.
- Cyther606 12y ago
  > the vast majority of people in the world (at least those who've heard of it) know it as this weird, unsavory, and probably criminal thing Yes, and it's the truth. What can bitcoin do that no other currency can? It can operate entirely outside of the existing banking system. That's the X factor of bitcoin, and NY regulators hate it for this reason. The black market actually has _very_ wide appeal. It's worth north of 40% of GDP in certain developing nations. It's worth billions of dollars in America, and Bitcoin has that market cornered online. This _is not_ a bad thing. It is something worth celebrating. I might add, the vast majority of Americans can't imagine a world in which the US Dollar isn't world reserve currency. Bitcoin was devised as a better currency system than the US Dollar ever could be, and that's why it's so special. Bitcoin doesn't try to be legal, it doesn't try to be whitewashed and savory, Bitcoin just _is_. And what it is, is a vastly superior form of money than fiat currency.
  - pjc50 12y ago
    Ask an Italian whether a black market dominated economy is a good thing.
  - sanderjd 12y ago
    We disagree. Bitcoin (or other cryptocurrencies) can be safely transferred across large distances more easily than existing currency. It will be a good thing when governments figure out how to regulate it (and I think they will, eventually).
IgorPartola 12y ago
Sorry, but you are wrong on most accounts, especially your evaluation of my person. You cannot possibly argue that using BTC is in some way more convenient than using a credit card. Is it personally and politically better to use BTC? Maybe. Is it easier for an average bear? Absolutely not.
pantaril 12y ago
>Bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to the banking system. No, i think that quote makes it clear that bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to centralized currency, where some authority (central bank) can issue new units of currency at will and devalue the currency for everyone.

sanswork 12y ago

>It's possible to store Bitcoin on sheets of paper The process for making a secure paper wallet is far from convenient and brain wallets are about the worst possible way to store bitcoin and are far from safe and secure. If you're going to get some please do not use a brain wallet.

Cyther606 12y ago
Numerous wallets make it dead simple to create a paper wallet. With Electrum, you just open the program and it automatically generates 12 words which you can write down on paper or learn by heart. It doesn't get much easier than that, and it's perfectly safe and secure to do.
- sanswork 12y ago
  Dead simple but no more secure than just storing the file encrypted on your computer. Electrum is great and if you write down the words thats fine. If you try to memorize them without a backup there are a lot of events that can happen in your life that will lead to the total loss of your coins.
  - bdamm 12y ago
    Agreed. I'm looking for a LiveCD style paper-waller generator, do you know of one?
    - sanswork 12y ago
      I don't use paper wallets myself but any barebones linux bootcd/usb with https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org and BIP38 selected is the route I see most recommended.
      - bdamm 12y ago
        Very convenient!
- mbillie1 12y ago
  > It doesn't get much easier than that I think a lot of people would argue that sticking with their current system (banks, fiat currency, etc) is, in fact, much easier than that.
  - rockyleal 12y ago
    They are more familiar with the current system, but after you have done it for the first time, you realise that electrum is actually way easier than banks. People just think its harder, but it is not really.
    - sanswork 12y ago
      It's only easier if you ignore the part where you have to get bitcoin in the first place.
      - Guvante 12y ago
        All the examples of "see Bitcoin isn't hard, here is $0.0005 worth" completely gloss over this point.
      - Natanael_L 12y ago
        That's no fault of Bitcoin, however. Getting USD isn't magically easy either.
        dublinben 12y ago
        Sure it is. You can sit on a street corner and people will literally hand you physical cash. It doesn't get any easier than that.
        mrb 12y ago
        Someone merely held a Bitcoin address sign on TV and received coins from all over the world: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/1/5163926/one-college-football-sign-netted-22-bitcoins-for-enthusiast http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/1/5163926/one-college-footba... How awesome is that? It sure beats the reach of sitting on a street corner...
dwaltrip 12y ago
If you know what you are doing, brain wallets are very safe. However, if you don't, you might easily make a disastrous mistake. The casual user should not store coins in a brainwallet, but they can be quite useful.
- sanswork 12y ago
  If you know what you are doing you can get enough entropy that is true but there is still a lot of things that can happy in your life that will affect your memory but not be life ending. In those cases without a backup you'll lose your coins.

headgasket 12y ago

I believe you are philosophically right about the idea of bitcoin. The cat is out of the bag: there is a distributed alternative to the global banking system. BTC might be corrupted, but the idea is not. Another spin on the POW and on the mass distribution mechanism, and the regulators might have a serious problem on their hands. Lots of ifs.

sanderjd 12y ago

I have bought and sold a few hundreds of USD worth of BTC and even used a few tens of USD of it for transactions, and while you're definitely right about the intent and philosophy of BTC, I agree with your parent comment that what is actually exciting about BTC (or something inspired by it) is its potential as the lowest-friction way to buy things digitally. The sooner BTC shakes its crypto-libertarian culture the better. Right the vast majority of people in the world (at least those who've heard of it) know it as this weird, unsavory, and probably criminal thing, instead of as the backbone of the new cheaper and much more convenient way of buying things and moving money around. If it can still be used by die-hards like you to protect themselves from the State, all the better, but that part of it is never going to be of much interest to most people.

Cyther606 12y ago
> the vast majority of people in the world (at least those who've heard of it) know it as this weird, unsavory, and probably criminal thing Yes, and it's the truth. What can bitcoin do that no other currency can? It can operate entirely outside of the existing banking system. That's the X factor of bitcoin, and NY regulators hate it for this reason. The black market actually has _very_ wide appeal. It's worth north of 40% of GDP in certain developing nations. It's worth billions of dollars in America, and Bitcoin has that market cornered online. This _is not_ a bad thing. It is something worth celebrating. I might add, the vast majority of Americans can't imagine a world in which the US Dollar isn't world reserve currency. Bitcoin was devised as a better currency system than the US Dollar ever could be, and that's why it's so special. Bitcoin doesn't try to be legal, it doesn't try to be whitewashed and savory, Bitcoin just _is_. And what it is, is a vastly superior form of money than fiat currency.
- pjc50 12y ago
  Ask an Italian whether a black market dominated economy is a good thing.
- sanderjd 12y ago
  We disagree. Bitcoin (or other cryptocurrencies) can be safely transferred across large distances more easily than existing currency. It will be a good thing when governments figure out how to regulate it (and I think they will, eventually).

IgorPartola 12y ago

Sorry, but you are wrong on most accounts, especially your evaluation of my person. You cannot possibly argue that using BTC is in some way more convenient than using a credit card. Is it personally and politically better to use BTC? Maybe. Is it easier for an average bear? Absolutely not.

pantaril 12y ago

>Bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to the banking system. No, i think that quote makes it clear that bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to centralized currency, where some authority (central bank) can issue new units of currency at will and devalue the currency for everyone.