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Ask HN: What to do when you are successful, hate it, and can't seem to change?

• mooreds 12y ago
  It is tough to give you advice when we don't know your whole situation (do you need a job because of health care, for example). Maybe you can just consult? That makes is easier to turn down work you don't want. And don't list your business experience on your resume/LinkedIn profile.
• spyglass 12y ago
  People equally skilled in programming and business are rare. Hell, even moderately tech-literate businesspeople are rare. So you are being recruited to positions where your combination of skills is going to profit the company the most. What do you do? If quality of life is more important to you than money, you say no to the recruiting. Otherwise, you say yes. We can't make this decision for you. Everyone's value ordering is different.
  • pekk 12y ago
    Alternatively, your employer realizes they can get two employees' worth of work out of you, so they do.
    • spyglass 12y ago
      I believe there's additional value being generated by having both skills at the same time, beyond the total productivity of two regular employees in their respective fields.
• nobodysfool 12y ago
  Refuse. Do you have a problem saying no? Why are you not setting boundaries? If your home life is important to you then you need to speak your mind. Tell them 'No, I dont want your promotion, I will be going home at a reasonable time to my family'. Is that so hard? Here's another tip - accept remote positions, and remove any business education from your resume.
  • silverbax88 12y ago
    In my experience, doing this will ultimately end up in being let go as 'not a team player'. I was in the same position as the OP many times and got tired of always getting moved out of software into more business management. When I started saying no, I was always cut loose before long. Went to companies after this occurred and didn't say no, and got right back into the same situation.
    • sleeplessinSLC 12y ago
      This is pretty much in line with what happens to me. Though I don't say no, I just leave. Another commenter asked why I am having to look for work so often, it is entirely by choice. Frankly, I shouldn't be complaining as I have not been fired or laid off and a lot of others have it much harder in this job market. But getting into these situations and then looking up every 6 months and saying "Damn it, here I am again" gets old.
    • ironchef 12y ago
      Anecdotally. Mine is the opposite. I've noticed the more someone tends to delegate and / or say no, the more they end up becoming respected in the organizations I've worked in. It's not that they say "That's not my job". It's more that they say "I can not take that on with my current responsibilities and perform it at a level that it deserves."
      • silverbax88 12y ago
        You are talking about something else. Saying no or delegating is not an issue - that's just managing expectations. What we are talking about is that it's not easy for companies to find people who are actually good at tech (not just faking it) and can also speak to a corporate room of C-level executives with ease. If you can do that, expect to get moved out of the engineering role within a year, unless you say no, in which case you'll be gone. The problem is, it's never worth it. The equity will always be less than the higher ups, even when it's given, and even when it actually is worth something. Side note - I was once given 150,000 shares of a company, without asking for it, and I knew it wouldn't be worth a thing. I was also given 6,000 shares of a solid company, also without asking. No equity I've ever been given was worth what the company took to get it - which is, they need what you have - just pure brain power, stress and the ability to compete at an global technical level, and to translate that into shareholder value. If I pour that much of myself into a company, it's going to be for a lot more than 50K of stock, or 100K. I've built systems that the company turned around and within a year it had netted $1.5 billion contract (yes, billion), which is what I was paid to do...but under no circumstances was I fooled into thinking I was paid what I was actually worth.
• slashink 12y ago
  I can relate to this, though on a different direction and i know it easy it is to slip into another role, that you dislike. I haven't yet figured out how not to do it, even considering switching from these kind of jobs entirely just to avoid ending up in your situation.
• nickthemagicman 12y ago
  You must be making baller money. Just live frugally, bank it away and invest it. And in a few years you will NEVER HAVE TO WORK AGAIN.(or just work on your own projects)
  • nkohari 12y ago
    Your advice of living frugally and investing is good, but since you need, let's say $5M, to retire in your 30-40s with the expectation of living the same lifestyle, "a few years" is much longer than you might think.
    • sillysaurus3 12y ago
      Does it really cost $5M to retire in your 30s?
      • buckbova 12y ago
        Since very very very few people make that much gross in their lifetime, I'd say hell no. Maybe the OP is thinking 100K for 50 more years.
      • VLM 12y ago
        This dovetails nicely with the conventional wisdom that over 30s is unemployable in tech fields. So either retire penniless in your 30s and never work in tech again, or retire with $5M in the bank in your 30s and never work in tech again. Also if your gross is say $120K and you keep about $90K of it and save most of it to retire, living off maybe $30K which is more than most Americans get, 5e6/30e3 = a mere 166 years of retirement, assuming your investments return about the real world inflation rate, which is a fairly realistic goal. Of course $5M in the bank and $60K/yr invested means you will have to start your savings program at age -60 or so if you want to retire in your 30s. Its probably a lot simpler to just contract like my Dad did. Do your thing when you need the cash, and when you don't need the cash, don't work for awhile. Nobody wants the programming contractor to advise the board at the end of a 16 hour day, especially when they see your hourly overtime rate.
• greenyoda 12y ago
  Maybe you'd be happier working for larger companies, where developers are rarely (if ever) involved with the business side of things. You don't need to go to a place as large as Google, just a place that's big enough that developers and business people are in distinct departments under different management.
• vajrabum 12y ago
  Maybe this is easier than you think. It sounds like you have little trouble getting hired for SE jobs. Are you being hired for your business acumen? If not, take most or all that stuff off your resume. Then find another job as a software engineer. The other tack is to avoid startups. A large enterprise is much less likely to drag you into business discussions if you don't have a business related job discussion.
• brnstz 12y ago
  > Some say it is depression, but would I want a medication to fix what is obviously a lifestyle problem? Medication is not the only solution to depression. The internet is a bad therapist. Consider a real one.
  • sleeplessinSLC 12y ago
    I honestly hadn't thought of it like that. Thinking this through with a number of other comments here and maybe I need to talk to a therapist about being less of a push over.
    • brnstz 12y ago
      I think that's a great idea.
    • thaumaturgy 12y ago
      Yes, exactly. FWIW what you've described so far doesn't ring like depression to me; rather, you're unhappy because you keep finding yourself in a situation you don't want to be in. But this is something you should discuss with a professional if you have access to one you like.
  • justbaker 12y ago
    Most "medication"(ie: antidepressants) is not a solution to depression either. But yes. talking helps.
• antidaily 12y ago
  Get a drug habit.
• buckbova 12y ago
  > Over the last decade or so . . . . Sounds like you're a bit long in the tooth. Has your development experience gone stale? What's your area of expertise? I agree with nobodysfool who says to revise your resume. Gear it completely towards software engineering. Remove your law degree from your resume. Then, look for new work.
• swalsh 12y ago
  Ask for less money (i'm willing to bet you're being well compensated for being in that hybrid role), and don't highlight those parts of your experience on your resume.
• spullara 12y ago
  This is the position I was in starting in about 2001 at BEA Systems when I started helping out on tech due diligence for acquisitions. It sounds to me like you would make a good founder. Sadly, there are few strong engineers that can also work on the strategy of the company. I'm not sure why you are being asked to go out after work a lot, that doesn't seem necessary, but certainly having a voice at the top and a keyboard at the bottom has been very powerful for me. Maybe you just need to make it clear what kinds of things besides engineering interest you and things that you are not interested in doing. If you are truly not interested in directing the course of the company I can only assume that you need to stop telling them the right things to do...
• tedmcory 12y ago
  You have a skill that is rare. Since supply is low, and demand is frequently high, price yourself accordingly.
  • capisce 12y ago
    What if he's not willing to sacrifice his work-life balance, even for a higher compensation?
    • DmitriRavinoff 12y ago
      Raise prices until the tradeoff is worth it or the demand reaches a tolerable level.
• yalogin 12y ago
  Could it be that you are over worked? Let me flip it around - You are good at the business side of things so why not do that full time? Move to a completely managerial/business role and quit coding completely. Get your life back under control. Coding is something you can always do in your spare time. I work on side projects at 10 or 11 at night for a few hours and it's enough to satisfy me. Of course it depends on what you want but it seems to me that you are good enough to make more money by moving up the chain and you should think about not losing that. SLC is awesome btw.
• chippy 12y ago
  Go on "sabbatical" - it's basically a holiday, but people will think you are being productive and not just relaxing. You should argue that the sabbatical is a years off unpaid holiday. Take a break, but still have connections and commitments to the company.
• dman 12y ago
  Are you willing to sacrifice the tailwind in your career that comes from leveraging your business skills?
• andersthue 12y ago
  Have you tried to not be a good business man, giving mediocre advice and make business mistakes to disaualify yourself from that part?
• donniezazen 12y ago
  You live in Utah. Go take a hike, literally.
• k3oni 12y ago
  As another commenter said remove "anything business" from your resume if it is in there. Also something that might help is trying to keep your thoughts for yourself(keep your mouth shut) in meetings for things not directly related to engineering or your team's work aspect. This might be a bit harder at first, been there and it takes a good exercise but at least for me it was in a company where we didn't have meetings at 8PM with execs.
• beachstartup 12y ago
  our latest hire is a very good senior engineer who was essentially working as a sales/marketing technical resource at his previous job, and was on a career track to become a vp of sales and marketing. he had "director of X" titles before that at large orgs as well. age early 40's. when he quit and came to work for us, the first thing he said was "i want to make it crystal clear that i do not want to be an executive at your company. i want to be a senior engineer. i want to stay at home with my family and take care of your technical needs." when you are clear with your requirements, and you get clear requirements from the employer, good situations can arise. having said all that, he didn't need the extra money that comes with being an executive - he's doing just fine - some people do need the money, however. it's just a question of personal priorities.
• nounaut 12y ago
  If you're being asked to work outside of office hours alot, then no matter what your job or position is your company has an efficiency problem and that's something that should be addressed for the good of the company. If you're changing jobs alot because you can't find one that suits your needs then you should be more aggressive and thorough in your search. Let those companies court you, not the other way around, and get everything you're hired to do written into your contract. If you're changing jobs that often just because you're supposed to in order to be considered successful then that's probably the biggest problem. Freelancing is an option I guess, aswell as starting your own company without the intention to sell. That still makes for alot of work on the business side of things though. Lastly, you seem like a guy who doesn't have too much trouble finding a job so risking your job by saying no seems like a small risk to take considering what you could gain. Also I'ld say that 9 out of 10 times you're just calling their bluff. You are an investment for any employer. If they lose you after 1-2 years they've basically thrown every penny they've ever given you out the window.
• zaccus 12y ago
  I think that telling yourself that you're "successful" can be a huge impediment to doing what you need to do in order to be happy. If you are not happy with your job/life, then you are not successful. Take a pay cut and tell the business dept to fuck off, or go work somewhere else. Having money in the bank grants you that luxury.
  • porker 12y ago
    This, this, and this again
• mapster 12y ago
  It sounds as though you are quite skilled across two important areas. Would more money in your pocket make these extra duties more interesting? If not, speak up - they wouldn't want to lose you. OR Propose a compromise: you will consult on biz dev, but during day work hours.
• JSeymourATL 12y ago
  > within short order I am snagged for business advising as well. This hasn’t been all bad. Face it-- you're a unicorn. There's NO way you can just do Software Engineering. You're simply not wired that way. As for the stuff you hate to do, the challenge is mitigate and manage. Be upfront on your boundaries, set expectations. Moving forward-- meetings are on your terms and schedule. Applicable to your situation, here's a good read on setting the frame and prizing> http://pitchanything.com/book/ http://pitchanything.com/book/