6 ms·

The problem with TNG is that it didn't necessarily get better in linear fashion, the way one could argue that DS9 got better as it "found its voice" and establi

The problem with TNG is that it didn't necessarily get better in linear fashion, the way one could argue that DS9 got better as it "found its voice" and established a continuous storyline. TNG has some high points and some clunkers in almost every season, though there are slightly more low points in the first two seasons. Having recently rewatched the run of the show, in chronological order, I'd guesstimate that 10% of the episodes are bad, 50% are decent, 20% are great, and 20% are spectacular. [1] So something like this would be especially helpful for TNG, where a) there are a lot of episodes in total, and b) there are no useful rules of thumb or shorthand (such as "skip season X," or "it gets better beyond Y"). Now, the great news about TNG is that it's mostly episodic. Which means she can watch any episode, at random, and enjoy it as a self-contained story. (Aside from the two-parters.) TNG really lends itself to randomized viewing. DS9 needs to be watched in chronological order (at least for the first-time viewer). TNG can be watched in any order. [1] Some people will find this assessment overly generous, and others will find it overly harsh. That's the beauty of Trek fandom; there's plenty of room for disagreement. :) Just about the only things TNG fans can agree on are that: 1) Riker with beard > Riker without beard; 2) "The Naked Now" is probably the series' worst episode, although it's enjoyable in a kitschy, ironic sort of way; 3) Wesley Crusher sucks (although Wil Wheaton himself is a pretty awesome guy).

Kluny 12y ago
I'm commenting here in the hopes that if I check back later the described project will exist.
JoshTriplett 12y ago
> The problem with TNG is that it didn't necessarily get better in linear fashion, the way one could argue that DS9 got better as it "found its voice" and established a continuous storyline. TNG has some high points and some clunkers in almost every season, though there are slightly more low points in the first two seasons. http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0092455 http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0092455 might help.
nkohari 12y ago
Hey, when I was 12, Wesley was pretty awesome.
- LandoCalrissian 12y ago
  I think there are two good Wesley episodes: Final Mission http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Final_Mission_(episode) http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Final_Mission_(episode) The First Duty http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_First_Duty_(episode) http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_First_Duty_(episode) Other than that he is pretty terrible.
  - cmdrfred 12y ago
    It's a trap!
- zingermc 12y ago
  Shut up, Wesley!
- jonnathanson 12y ago
  Was he? I mean, in theory, he was definitely there to provide the pre/adolescent entry point into the show. So I get that. But I always hated him. When I was 12, he was kind of a minor annoyance. Data was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Riker completely puzzled me; I kept hearing about how cool he was supposed to be, and to me, he just seemed like kind of a dick. Worf was pretty cool. Geordi was ok, and he got a lot of good will for having been on Reading Rainbow. Troi was annoying, but 12-year-old me really appreciated her taste in spandex. Beverly Crusher was kind of boring. Picard was pretty cool. As an adult, I still find Wesley annoying (if, ironically enough, less so). Data is still pretty awesome. Riker has grown on me in a way that I don't think I would have been capable of appreciating as an inexperienced kid. He is a nuanced character that you kind of have to have lived a little in order to get. My opinion on Worf is largely unchanged, though his stock benefitted retrospectively from his appearances on DS9. Geordi got better with the benefit of time. Troi still bugs me; I find her one-dimensional with only occasional chances to shine. (Probably not her fault. It seems that the writers just didn't know what to do with her, other than consign her to stereotypical, damsel-in-distress and love-interest tropes. Her mother, by contrast, is a fantastic character, if a bit of a lightning rod amongst fans.) Beverly Crusher grew on me a bit -- especially in contrast to Dr. Pulaski, whose odd, technophobic Data-bashing felt really out of place in the 24th Century. Picard went from being "pretty cool" to being, unquestionably, the best thing about the show.
glenra 12y ago
By way of a friend-of-a-friend being one of the TNG writers, I was given a pretty cool explanation for what happened with Wesley. Upshot: It was the writers' strike. What happened was this: The TNG team had regular meetings where the writers and producers got together and reviewed the state of the series - what kinds of scripts and stories they were looking for and what was in the pipeline and what sort of course corrections they wanted to see. At one such meeting the producers said "we've got this character Wesley but we haven't really DONE anything with him - the audience doesn't know much about him. We'd really like to see some stories that let us connect more with that character." Then the dozen writers all went home with that thought in mind: let's get to know Wesley! And how do you "get to know a character better" on a Trek show? Have him save the ship! So the following week, a dozen writers all submitted their own independent "Wesley saves the ship" scripts. ...and right after that the writers' strike happened and nobody could write any NEW scripts, so to keep the series going they had to film and show any decent scripts they already had handy, far too many of which (by pure chance) featured Wesley saving the ship. If they had had a choice, they would have filmed fewer of those scripts at all, sent a few back for rewrites, and staggered them out much farther apart between runs of episodes in which a little kid DOESN'T manage to make everyone else on the ship look stupid or redundant.
- jonnathanson 12y ago
  That is kind of hilarious and amazing. My understanding is that the writers' strike also accounts for the notorious clip-show episode "Shades of Grey" in Season 2, in which an entire plot is loosely constructed around Riker's "flashbacks" to footage from previous episodes -- made all the more jarring by the fact that it's only Season 2, and there haven't even been all that many clips to flash back to.
CurtMonash 12y ago
Re: "The Naked Now" is probably the series' worst episode I can refute that in two words: "Fully functional". Similarly for another worst episode candidate, saved almost entirely by "I am not a merry man".
- jonnathanson 12y ago
  Oh, don't get me wrong, I love watching the episode. I also love watching movies like "The Room." To me, "The Naked Now" is "The Room" of TNG episodes. It's a fascinating trainwreck with some hilarious scenes ("Fully functional" being the best, obviously). What fascinates me is that "Naked Now" was only the second episode of the entire series! It's as if the writers just got together and said, "You know what? Fuck the shark; let's just jump it right out of the gate and get it over with." Or, "Sooner or later, some fanfic weirdos are going to launch a heated debate about whether Data can have sex. Let's address that question preemptively, sparing everyone the flame war."

Kluny 12y ago

I'm commenting here in the hopes that if I check back later the described project will exist.

JoshTriplett 12y ago

> The problem with TNG is that it didn't necessarily get better in linear fashion, the way one could argue that DS9 got better as it "found its voice" and established a continuous storyline. TNG has some high points and some clunkers in almost every season, though there are slightly more low points in the first two seasons. http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0092455 http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0092455 might help.

nkohari 12y ago

Hey, when I was 12, Wesley was pretty awesome.

LandoCalrissian 12y ago
I think there are two good Wesley episodes: Final Mission http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Final_Mission_(episode) http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Final_Mission_(episode) The First Duty http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_First_Duty_(episode) http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_First_Duty_(episode) Other than that he is pretty terrible.
- cmdrfred 12y ago
  It's a trap!
zingermc 12y ago
Shut up, Wesley!
jonnathanson 12y ago
Was he? I mean, in theory, he was definitely there to provide the pre/adolescent entry point into the show. So I get that. But I always hated him. When I was 12, he was kind of a minor annoyance. Data was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Riker completely puzzled me; I kept hearing about how cool he was supposed to be, and to me, he just seemed like kind of a dick. Worf was pretty cool. Geordi was ok, and he got a lot of good will for having been on Reading Rainbow. Troi was annoying, but 12-year-old me really appreciated her taste in spandex. Beverly Crusher was kind of boring. Picard was pretty cool. As an adult, I still find Wesley annoying (if, ironically enough, less so). Data is still pretty awesome. Riker has grown on me in a way that I don't think I would have been capable of appreciating as an inexperienced kid. He is a nuanced character that you kind of have to have lived a little in order to get. My opinion on Worf is largely unchanged, though his stock benefitted retrospectively from his appearances on DS9. Geordi got better with the benefit of time. Troi still bugs me; I find her one-dimensional with only occasional chances to shine. (Probably not her fault. It seems that the writers just didn't know what to do with her, other than consign her to stereotypical, damsel-in-distress and love-interest tropes. Her mother, by contrast, is a fantastic character, if a bit of a lightning rod amongst fans.) Beverly Crusher grew on me a bit -- especially in contrast to Dr. Pulaski, whose odd, technophobic Data-bashing felt really out of place in the 24th Century. Picard went from being "pretty cool" to being, unquestionably, the best thing about the show.

glenra 12y ago

By way of a friend-of-a-friend being one of the TNG writers, I was given a pretty cool explanation for what happened with Wesley. Upshot: It was the writers' strike. What happened was this: The TNG team had regular meetings where the writers and producers got together and reviewed the state of the series - what kinds of scripts and stories they were looking for and what was in the pipeline and what sort of course corrections they wanted to see. At one such meeting the producers said "we've got this character Wesley but we haven't really DONE anything with him - the audience doesn't know much about him. We'd really like to see some stories that let us connect more with that character." Then the dozen writers all went home with that thought in mind: let's get to know Wesley! And how do you "get to know a character better" on a Trek show? Have him save the ship! So the following week, a dozen writers all submitted their own independent "Wesley saves the ship" scripts. ...and right after that the writers' strike happened and nobody could write any NEW scripts, so to keep the series going they had to film and show any decent scripts they already had handy, far too many of which (by pure chance) featured Wesley saving the ship. If they had had a choice, they would have filmed fewer of those scripts at all, sent a few back for rewrites, and staggered them out much farther apart between runs of episodes in which a little kid DOESN'T manage to make everyone else on the ship look stupid or redundant.

jonnathanson 12y ago
That is kind of hilarious and amazing. My understanding is that the writers' strike also accounts for the notorious clip-show episode "Shades of Grey" in Season 2, in which an entire plot is loosely constructed around Riker's "flashbacks" to footage from previous episodes -- made all the more jarring by the fact that it's only Season 2, and there haven't even been all that many clips to flash back to.

CurtMonash 12y ago

Re: "The Naked Now" is probably the series' worst episode I can refute that in two words: "Fully functional". Similarly for another worst episode candidate, saved almost entirely by "I am not a merry man".

jonnathanson 12y ago
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love watching the episode. I also love watching movies like "The Room." To me, "The Naked Now" is "The Room" of TNG episodes. It's a fascinating trainwreck with some hilarious scenes ("Fully functional" being the best, obviously). What fascinates me is that "Naked Now" was only the second episode of the entire series! It's as if the writers just got together and said, "You know what? Fuck the shark; let's just jump it right out of the gate and get it over with." Or, "Sooner or later, some fanfic weirdos are going to launch a heated debate about whether Data can have sex. Let's address that question preemptively, sparing everyone the flame war."