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> You know, I don't particularly like the "sharing economy" movement. The whole thing seems predicated on deregulation of industries that I honestly think shoul

> You know, I don't particularly like the "sharing economy" movement. The whole thing seems predicated on deregulation of industries that I honestly think should be regulated. I mostly agree with you but I think the sharing economy is something that needs to happen in a better regulated way. Let's face it, wage growth is stagnant and the only way the average person is able to improve their financial situation is to be more efficient. [e.g. sharing cars, renting out spare rooms, moonlighting as an Uber driver] My main problem with Uber is the fact it isn't paying the same tax rates to the local government as the Taxi companies. My main problem with AirBnb is they don't even bother with building an address list to filter out apartment complexes [almost all of which don't allow subleasing in the US] & condos [ditto]. They need to do that and require a copy of the person's lease to be on file with them showing they can sublease, etc.

chimeracoder 12y ago
> the only way the average person is able to improve their financial situation is to be more efficient AirBNB doesn't provide the average renter a way to improve their financial situation in the long run. For renters in non-regulated units (ie, no rent control/stabilization), if you can make an extra $200/week on AirBNB and your landlord knows it, he or she will simply raise the rent by $800/month the next time your lease is up for renewal. (Or, if he knows this in advance, this becomes the market rate for your initial lease to begin with). This is very easily corroborated by the studies showing that AirBNB led to an increase in rent in several cities (linked in other HN discussions, and also very easy to find elsewhere). This isn't a statement about AirBNB; it's just basic economics. Absent regulation or other market "stickiness", the money eventually flows to the individual or entity who owns the capital - in this case, the real estate. (The etymology of the word "capitalism" is not coincidental!). For property owners, the math is different (though still not as good for the owner as one might think).
- opendais 12y ago
  > For renters in non-regulated units (ie, no rent control/stabilization), if you can make an extra $200/week on AirBNB and your landlord knows it, he or she will simply raise the rent by $800/month the next time your lease is up for renewal. > This isn't a statement about AirBNB; it's just basic economics. Absent regulation or other market "stickiness", the money eventually flows to the individual or entity who owns the capital - in this case, the real estate. (The etymology of the word "capitalism" is not coincidental!). Please provide evidence that this doesn't happen with normal split leases, normal renting of rooms out to people, using craigslist to rent temporary rooms, and is directly linked to AirBnb. Like many things in life "basic economics" is not "basic" when you have multiple equal solutions that bring about equivalent outcomes. The same effects happen when people split rent [e.g. they can afford more, on average]. Also? They'd be able to do this without AirBNB and people did for a long time. AirBNB has only increased the supply & demand by making it easier.
crdoconnor 12y ago
Wage growth is not going to return because we've started hustling rides. Its demise was political and its resurgence can only be political. The 'sharing' economy is simply symptomatic.
- opendais 12y ago
  I never said wage growth was going to magically reappear because of this. I think wage stagnation is a side effect of globalization, personally. Employers arbitaging labor costs across oceans and borders is very effective at slowing the wage growth of the most expensive workers.
  - crdoconnor 12y ago
    While largely true, employers fought a long hard political battle to break down impediments to trade and keep the value of the USD propped up. Those are the things that let them arbitrage labor costs and they (currently) come with the consent of labor. "Globalization" (in this sense) was not some inevitable force of nature, it was borne out of hard-won policies like NAFTA and CAFTA.
fred_durst 12y ago
Instead the sharing economy will make those wage stagnated people's lives more expensive and force them into the sharing economy. It was like refinancing. In a lot of markets many people couldn't afford a house unless they planned to refinance in a couple years based on price appreciation. With Airbnb the price of apartments will rise to the point where one cannot afford an apartment unless one rents part of it out on Airbnb.
- opendais 12y ago
  > It was like refinancing. In a lot of markets many people couldn't afford a house unless they planned to refinance in a couple years based on price appreciation. With Airbnb the price of apartments will rise to the point where one cannot afford an apartment unless one rents part of it out on Airbnb. People keep saying this without any real evidence. People did the same f'n thing with sharing rent, subletting, etc. before. The only difference is they didn't have as easy access to the tourist market. It isn't going to magically reevaluate the prices of all real estate everywhere as long as its legal.
  - fred_durst 12y ago
    Refinancing did not become big until computer models and the online connectivity of the customer allowed lenders and consumers to price them very quickly and efficiently. The exact same can be said of the difference existing now in the sharing economy. I'm not saying the sharing economy should be stopped, but to believe it will be a net benefit to the working class is a bit naive in my opinion.

chimeracoder 12y ago

> the only way the average person is able to improve their financial situation is to be more efficient AirBNB doesn't provide the average renter a way to improve their financial situation in the long run. For renters in non-regulated units (ie, no rent control/stabilization), if you can make an extra $200/week on AirBNB and your landlord knows it, he or she will simply raise the rent by $800/month the next time your lease is up for renewal. (Or, if he knows this in advance, this becomes the market rate for your initial lease to begin with). This is very easily corroborated by the studies showing that AirBNB led to an increase in rent in several cities (linked in other HN discussions, and also very easy to find elsewhere). This isn't a statement about AirBNB; it's just basic economics. Absent regulation or other market "stickiness", the money eventually flows to the individual or entity who owns the capital - in this case, the real estate. (The etymology of the word "capitalism" is not coincidental!). For property owners, the math is different (though still not as good for the owner as one might think).

opendais 12y ago
> For renters in non-regulated units (ie, no rent control/stabilization), if you can make an extra $200/week on AirBNB and your landlord knows it, he or she will simply raise the rent by $800/month the next time your lease is up for renewal. > This isn't a statement about AirBNB; it's just basic economics. Absent regulation or other market "stickiness", the money eventually flows to the individual or entity who owns the capital - in this case, the real estate. (The etymology of the word "capitalism" is not coincidental!). Please provide evidence that this doesn't happen with normal split leases, normal renting of rooms out to people, using craigslist to rent temporary rooms, and is directly linked to AirBnb. Like many things in life "basic economics" is not "basic" when you have multiple equal solutions that bring about equivalent outcomes. The same effects happen when people split rent [e.g. they can afford more, on average]. Also? They'd be able to do this without AirBNB and people did for a long time. AirBNB has only increased the supply & demand by making it easier.

crdoconnor 12y ago

Wage growth is not going to return because we've started hustling rides. Its demise was political and its resurgence can only be political. The 'sharing' economy is simply symptomatic.

opendais 12y ago
I never said wage growth was going to magically reappear because of this. I think wage stagnation is a side effect of globalization, personally. Employers arbitaging labor costs across oceans and borders is very effective at slowing the wage growth of the most expensive workers.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  While largely true, employers fought a long hard political battle to break down impediments to trade and keep the value of the USD propped up. Those are the things that let them arbitrage labor costs and they (currently) come with the consent of labor. "Globalization" (in this sense) was not some inevitable force of nature, it was borne out of hard-won policies like NAFTA and CAFTA.

fred_durst 12y ago

Instead the sharing economy will make those wage stagnated people's lives more expensive and force them into the sharing economy. It was like refinancing. In a lot of markets many people couldn't afford a house unless they planned to refinance in a couple years based on price appreciation. With Airbnb the price of apartments will rise to the point where one cannot afford an apartment unless one rents part of it out on Airbnb.

opendais 12y ago
> It was like refinancing. In a lot of markets many people couldn't afford a house unless they planned to refinance in a couple years based on price appreciation. With Airbnb the price of apartments will rise to the point where one cannot afford an apartment unless one rents part of it out on Airbnb. People keep saying this without any real evidence. People did the same f'n thing with sharing rent, subletting, etc. before. The only difference is they didn't have as easy access to the tourist market. It isn't going to magically reevaluate the prices of all real estate everywhere as long as its legal.
- fred_durst 12y ago
  Refinancing did not become big until computer models and the online connectivity of the customer allowed lenders and consumers to price them very quickly and efficiently. The exact same can be said of the difference existing now in the sharing economy. I'm not saying the sharing economy should be stopped, but to believe it will be a net benefit to the working class is a bit naive in my opinion.