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As much as most of it may be true, Russia's fault in the Malaysian plane shoot-down hasn't been proved, even the crash site hasn't been examined properly, isn't

by iliaznk 12y ago

As much as most of it may be true, Russia's fault in the Malaysian plane shoot-down hasn't been proved, even the crash site hasn't been examined properly, isn't it too early for such conclusions?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
lordmax 12y ago
There is a massive amount of secondary evidence, all of which points in the same direction. Here is few research resources, unfortunately they are all in russian; perhaps google translate will recover enough meaning for it to be useful: http://www.solonin.org/article_sbityiy-boing-medlenno-i-po http://www.solonin.org/article_sbityiy-boing-medlenno-i-po http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/1362312-echo/ http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/1362312-echo/ http://gordonua.com/publications/Belkovskiy-Vse-plany-Putina-otnositelno-Ukrainy-vzorvalis-vmeste-s-Boeing-On-v-yarosti-a-v-Kremle-panika-32388.html http://gordonua.com/publications/Belkovskiy-Vse-plany-Putina... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZ43EunqvM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZ43EunqvM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ludDRApl7nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ludDRApl7nU
jakozaur 12y ago
It wasn't proved, but there is not a believable alternative scenario. There are videos of transported missiles, intercepted calls, orders of obstructing access to crash site... John Kerry even says there is "Enormous amount of evidence" for that scenario. Still not 100% sure, but 99% yes.
- iliaznk 12y ago
  Oh, come on! John Kerry says... right...
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  videos of transported missiles, intercepted calls, orders of obstructing access to crash site... But do they specifically incriminate one side?
  - egao1980 12y ago
    Missiles in video appeared to be Ukrainian - people identified street and city, calls has strong indication of being mixed up from several sources, OSCE dismissed all talks about obstructing access to the crash site. So the reasonable thing to do now is to wait for ICAO verdict. Regardless of who actually hit the plane, Ukraine is still to blame for directing it to fly over the war zone.
    - Grue3 12y ago
      >Regardless of who actually hit the plane, Ukraine is still to blame for directing it to fly over the war zone. Victim blaming at its best. Absolutely disgusting.
    - Lasker 12y ago
      Stop spreading kremlin lies. Just one your line contains 3 of them. And your attempt to blame Ukraine is just pathetic. Like a robber blaming the victim because he went his way.
- piroflip 12y ago
  Like there was Chemical WMD in Iraq.
- Veinlash 12y ago
  For a country to officially start condemning or placing blame on Russia there would have to be irrefutable evidence I'd say. I wouldn't want to get into a seriously heated conflict without being 100% sure, so even 99% wouldn't be good enough if I were in the driver seat. Result being people all standing around, shifty-eyed, 99% sure Russia and the separatists are behind the shooting, no one dares throw the first punch with 99% certainty.
  - lafar6502 12y ago
    But what kind of evidence do you consider irrefutable? This is a murky situation where officially there are no russian soldiers in Ukraine and the 'separatists' are just volunteers who happen to have military training and access to russian weapons. You know, nothing special, such things happen in every country.
- xor-ed-wolf 12y ago
  It can be a conspiracy by Ukraine's government (with some possible help from some foreign intelligence advisors) to discredit pro-Russian faction. Or idiots in pro-Russian faction that didn't confirm or were mislead about the target (like someone falsely hinting them about the plane) before shooting it down. I wonder why all those people state it as if they know the truth already. If it is not propaganda at work then I don't know what is.

by iliaznk 12y ago

As much as most of it may be true, Russia's fault in the Malaysian plane shoot-down hasn't been proved, even the crash site hasn't been examined properly, isn't it too early for such conclusions?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

lordmax 12y ago

There is a massive amount of secondary evidence, all of which points in the same direction. Here is few research resources, unfortunately they are all in russian; perhaps google translate will recover enough meaning for it to be useful: http://www.solonin.org/article_sbityiy-boing-medlenno-i-po http://www.solonin.org/article_sbityiy-boing-medlenno-i-po http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/1362312-echo/ http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/1362312-echo/ http://gordonua.com/publications/Belkovskiy-Vse-plany-Putina-otnositelno-Ukrainy-vzorvalis-vmeste-s-Boeing-On-v-yarosti-a-v-Kremle-panika-32388.html http://gordonua.com/publications/Belkovskiy-Vse-plany-Putina... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZ43EunqvM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiZ43EunqvM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ludDRApl7nU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ludDRApl7nU

jakozaur 12y ago

It wasn't proved, but there is not a believable alternative scenario. There are videos of transported missiles, intercepted calls, orders of obstructing access to crash site... John Kerry even says there is "Enormous amount of evidence" for that scenario. Still not 100% sure, but 99% yes.

iliaznk 12y ago
Oh, come on! John Kerry says... right...
vezzy-fnord 12y ago
videos of transported missiles, intercepted calls, orders of obstructing access to crash site... But do they specifically incriminate one side?
- egao1980 12y ago
  Missiles in video appeared to be Ukrainian - people identified street and city, calls has strong indication of being mixed up from several sources, OSCE dismissed all talks about obstructing access to the crash site. So the reasonable thing to do now is to wait for ICAO verdict. Regardless of who actually hit the plane, Ukraine is still to blame for directing it to fly over the war zone.
  - Grue3 12y ago
    >Regardless of who actually hit the plane, Ukraine is still to blame for directing it to fly over the war zone. Victim blaming at its best. Absolutely disgusting.
  - Lasker 12y ago
    Stop spreading kremlin lies. Just one your line contains 3 of them. And your attempt to blame Ukraine is just pathetic. Like a robber blaming the victim because he went his way.
piroflip 12y ago
Like there was Chemical WMD in Iraq.
Veinlash 12y ago
For a country to officially start condemning or placing blame on Russia there would have to be irrefutable evidence I'd say. I wouldn't want to get into a seriously heated conflict without being 100% sure, so even 99% wouldn't be good enough if I were in the driver seat. Result being people all standing around, shifty-eyed, 99% sure Russia and the separatists are behind the shooting, no one dares throw the first punch with 99% certainty.
- lafar6502 12y ago
  But what kind of evidence do you consider irrefutable? This is a murky situation where officially there are no russian soldiers in Ukraine and the 'separatists' are just volunteers who happen to have military training and access to russian weapons. You know, nothing special, such things happen in every country.
xor-ed-wolf 12y ago
It can be a conspiracy by Ukraine's government (with some possible help from some foreign intelligence advisors) to discredit pro-Russian faction. Or idiots in pro-Russian faction that didn't confirm or were mislead about the target (like someone falsely hinting them about the plane) before shooting it down. I wonder why all those people state it as if they know the truth already. If it is not propaganda at work then I don't know what is.