4 ms·

> I would very much like to read a comparison of CL and Clojure from the author at some point. As it seems he is offering a fair comparison. I suspect the aut

> I would very much like to read a comparison of CL and Clojure from the author at some point. As it seems he is offering a fair comparison. I suspect the authors main problem with Clojure is, that it is a mostly functional language which heavily emphasizes doing things in the functional way and discouraging imperative programming whereas CL is more like a true multiparadigm language. I used to think that multiparadigm is best, but after migrating from Scheme which is mostly functional but has a lot of mutation and a sad lack of interesting datastructures apart from Lisp to Clojure which has good support for dicts and persistent data structures I think I prefer a community that is more focused on one approach.

cmiles74 12y ago
I feel the need to chime in: working in a language where the assumption is that everyone has agreed on a functional approach makes it much easier to stick to that approach myself. And, of course, reading other people's source code makes that much more sense.
PuercoPop 12y ago
It is in poor taste to put words in someone's mouth and proceed to 'debunk' said words.
- LeonidasXIV 12y ago
  I seem to remember his comments on some Lisp list on usenet or something, but I might be wrong, in which case I'm sorry and didn't mean to discredit the article's author in any way (I think that Pascal Costanza is a nice and smart fellow, and always had a positive impression of his posts, and Lisp communities used to be terrible places).
klibertp 12y ago
> I suspect the authors main problem with Clojure That's not a very nice thing to do, suspecting people without any kind of evidence. Not to mention the fact that there is a `set!` form in Clojure, which makes it entirely possible to write very imperative code (and thread-local semantics don't matter in single-threaded programs). Anyway, "problems with Clojure" can be very different for different people. I like Clojure design as a language - even its interop with OO host features are very neat - but then when I want to hack some simple script in a REPL I not only need to write this: $ rlwrap java -cp "clojure-1.5.1.jar" clojure.main but then I need to wait for freaking 6 seconds for the prompt to appear. 6 seconds. I don't know what more I could write here, so I'll just paste this (Chicken Scheme): $ time csi -e '(exit)' csi -e '(exit)' 0,01s user 0,00s system 81% cpu 0,007 total So that's my problem with Clojure, nothing to do with "functional way", right?
- LeonidasXIV 12y ago
  > So that's my problem with Clojure, nothing to do with "functional way", right? Sure. For a solution to your particular problem, maybe ClojureScript will bring some improvement for CLI use, since Nodejs tends to start faster than a whole JVM.

cmiles74 12y ago

I feel the need to chime in: working in a language where the assumption is that everyone has agreed on a functional approach makes it much easier to stick to that approach myself. And, of course, reading other people's source code makes that much more sense.

PuercoPop 12y ago

It is in poor taste to put words in someone's mouth and proceed to 'debunk' said words.

LeonidasXIV 12y ago
I seem to remember his comments on some Lisp list on usenet or something, but I might be wrong, in which case I'm sorry and didn't mean to discredit the article's author in any way (I think that Pascal Costanza is a nice and smart fellow, and always had a positive impression of his posts, and Lisp communities used to be terrible places).

klibertp 12y ago

> I suspect the authors main problem with Clojure That's not a very nice thing to do, suspecting people without any kind of evidence. Not to mention the fact that there is a `set!` form in Clojure, which makes it entirely possible to write very imperative code (and thread-local semantics don't matter in single-threaded programs). Anyway, "problems with Clojure" can be very different for different people. I like Clojure design as a language - even its interop with OO host features are very neat - but then when I want to hack some simple script in a REPL I not only need to write this: $ rlwrap java -cp "clojure-1.5.1.jar" clojure.main but then I need to wait for freaking 6 seconds for the prompt to appear. 6 seconds. I don't know what more I could write here, so I'll just paste this (Chicken Scheme): $ time csi -e '(exit)' csi -e '(exit)' 0,01s user 0,00s system 81% cpu 0,007 total So that's my problem with Clojure, nothing to do with "functional way", right?

LeonidasXIV 12y ago
> So that's my problem with Clojure, nothing to do with "functional way", right? Sure. For a solution to your particular problem, maybe ClojureScript will bring some improvement for CLI use, since Nodejs tends to start faster than a whole JVM.