4 ms·

It's easier for two people to cope with one bad experience each than for one guy to cope with two bad experiences.

by id 12y ago

maaku 12y ago
Assumed independence. You are talking about a strictly different setup. Assume that these individuals don't know each other.
- shawnz 12y ago
  I don't think he is making the assumption that they know each other. Each individual has a tolerance of what they can comfortably cope with. If 3^^^3 people were all experiencing a pain that is below that tolerance, nobody would be prevented from happiness. However in the other situation, the tortured individual clearly would be.
  - maaku 12y ago
    That's an example of infinite or unbounded utility functions: no matter how many specks of dust in the eye, it will never add up to a single person being tortured for 50 years. Even 3^^^^^^^^^^^3 specks of dust. Unfortunately the mathematics of infinite and/or unbounded utility functions doesn't work out well. It leads to some seriously messed up edge cases. (So does finite utilitariansm, to be fair -- [Pascal's mugging](http://www.nickbostrom.com/papers/pascal.pdf http://www.nickbostrom.com/papers/pascal.pdf) -- but these are fully dealt with by decision theory, whereas the infinite or unbounded cases are not). It's not very strong, but it is evidence that we should be accepting of the calculations of finite utilitarianism since the formalization works out better in cases which are within the realm of our experience.
- walterbell 12y ago
  Talk to an urban planner or someone working in disaster relief. Empathic "strangers" help others, in many contexts, often at personal risk. That's what separates humans from singularitarian quantum computing devices.
twobits 12y ago
I'd say if each of those two people had the "bad experience" of having their only child killed in a car accident, that's worse than someone else having his uncle and grandmother killed in a car accident. "Bad experience" is hugely oversimplified. And just not start about a trillion specs of dust in a trillion people.

It's easier for two people to cope with one bad experience each than for one guy to cope with two bad experiences.

by id 12y ago

It's easier for two people to cope with one bad experience each than for one guy to cope with two bad experiences.

maaku 12y ago

Assumed independence. You are talking about a strictly different setup. Assume that these individuals don't know each other.

shawnz 12y ago
I don't think he is making the assumption that they know each other. Each individual has a tolerance of what they can comfortably cope with. If 3^^^3 people were all experiencing a pain that is below that tolerance, nobody would be prevented from happiness. However in the other situation, the tortured individual clearly would be.
- maaku 12y ago
  That's an example of infinite or unbounded utility functions: no matter how many specks of dust in the eye, it will never add up to a single person being tortured for 50 years. Even 3^^^^^^^^^^^3 specks of dust. Unfortunately the mathematics of infinite and/or unbounded utility functions doesn't work out well. It leads to some seriously messed up edge cases. (So does finite utilitariansm, to be fair -- [Pascal's mugging](http://www.nickbostrom.com/papers/pascal.pdf http://www.nickbostrom.com/papers/pascal.pdf) -- but these are fully dealt with by decision theory, whereas the infinite or unbounded cases are not). It's not very strong, but it is evidence that we should be accepting of the calculations of finite utilitarianism since the formalization works out better in cases which are within the realm of our experience.
walterbell 12y ago
Talk to an urban planner or someone working in disaster relief. Empathic "strangers" help others, in many contexts, often at personal risk. That's what separates humans from singularitarian quantum computing devices.

twobits 12y ago

I'd say if each of those two people had the "bad experience" of having their only child killed in a car accident, that's worse than someone else having his uncle and grandmother killed in a car accident. "Bad experience" is hugely oversimplified. And just not start about a trillion specs of dust in a trillion people.