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The non-H1B salaries aren't public, but they do get audited. Employers need to be able to demonstrate that they're not paying H1Bs less, or there is hell to pa

The non-H1B salaries aren't public, but they do get audited. Employers need to be able to demonstrate that they're not paying H1Bs less, or there is hell to pay. These audits aren't rare either -- by the time you're large enough to have decent number of H1Bs they're practically routine. Large companies have a team of people just focusing on H1B compliance. As you discovered, there is a hidden wage pressure anyway. Over your career, it's your mobility that helps drive your wages up: either because you leave for greener fields, or just because you can. While you're on a H1B your mobility is so limited which can put your career in low gear until you get your GC. If your on lame project or a cheap company you just have to put up with it. The dumb thing is that the solution is absurdly simple: just allow H1Bs to transfer sponsorship with zero penalty. If that means that they work for 5 different firms before they get the GC, so be it. Labor market dynamism is a good thing, embrace it. You also could scrap the whole auditing process; if a company starts underpaying their H1B's the problem would sort itself out very quickly as they start getting poached by the competitor down the road.

pandaman 12y ago
>Employers need to be able to demonstrate that they're not paying H1Bs less, or there is hell to pay Any source for this? I have never heard of such requirements (as well, as often cited need to prove that no citizens available for each H1B position). All you need is to pay above the prevailing wage. Which is ridiculously low anyways. >The dumb thing is that the solution is absurdly simple: just allow H1Bs to transfer sponsorship with zero penalty. What is preventing you from transferring H1B now? I had no penalties transferring my H1B twice. The mobility problem with H1B is not the transfer per se. It's the fact that to do this the company need to have immigration lawyers and have the paperwork in order (e.g. one company that wanted to hire me did not have their tax returns). So the number of the companies you cold transfer is limited. Another issue is that H1B has maximum term of 6 years, which can only be extended if there is an active AOS process (green card). Somebody with 4 years on H1B is not a very attractive hire for a company that wants more commitment from their workers.
- bodyfour 12y ago
  I can't claim your experience since I've never been on your side of the H1B process. I've also been out of people-management for a few years. I can say that when I was in that position it was drilled into me that you need to make sure H1's get equal pay. Just googling a bit now about H1B audits I found this: http://www.raminenilaw.com/h-1b-wage-and-hour-audits-dol-audits http://www.raminenilaw.com/h-1b-wage-and-hour-audits-dol-aud... They mention that the auditors can demand 3 years of wage data for both H1B and non-H1B's in the same employment classification. Further, see http://www.greencardapply.com/h1b/h1b_pwages.htm#sthash.DNRimWb4.dpbs http://www.greencardapply.com/h1b/h1b_pwages.htm#sthash.DNRi... "in certain programs, such as H-1B (temporary specialty occupations), the employer is required to pay the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid by the employer to workers with similar skills and qualifications, whichever is higher" I'm sure there are places that skate as close to the line as they can and do try to save money on H1Bs. However, the law is set up to avoid this and audits are much more frequent than a decade ago. > Another issue is that H1B has maximum term of 6 years My understanding -- and correct me if I'm wrong about this -- is that transferring early on isn't a big problem. If your GC isn't far along anyway then a job switch can't cause much of a delay. However, if your GC seems just around the corner (a limbo that can take years to get through) you're unlikely to risk moving jobs and throwing a wrench into the works. I can understand that the H1B process would want an employer to demonstrate that they're not bringing someone over to flood an already over-supplied local labor market. However, once an immigrant's first employer does that I don't see any reason to restrict them further. As far as I'm concerned, they've earned their visa and they should feel free to work anywhere they like. The entire concept of a human being having to be "sponsored" by a company is distasteful. Further, what possible reason could there be for a 6 year limit? If they were suitable for employment in 2008, they should still be in 2014 given that they have more experience. It's insane that we'd even threaten sending them away. It would be simpler to just start the GC process automatically with their H1B.
  - pandaman 12y ago
    The audit in the first link looks like an audit of the claimed wages (on the LCA petition you submit when requesting an H1B) are same as the factual ones. I've also heard about the "ability to pay" auditing (the company has to have enough profit to support the claimed wage) and working on site (to bust body shops that sell H1Bs to another company). These are all irrelevant to companies such as Microsoft or Amazon (they are not benching their H1Bs, don't ship them off-site and pay way above prevailing wage). The LCA itself contains a promise that the wage is "average" for the employer. It is not the maximum so even if it had been enforced it would be absurd to claim that H1Bs are paid no less than citizens based on this alone. >However, if your GC seems just around the corner (a limbo that can take years to get through) you're unlikely to risk moving jobs and throwing a wrench into the works. It might be so in some cases. It's not related to H1B. H1B is a temporary worker's non-immigrant visa. Green Card is an immigrant visa. They are entirely orthogonal and you can get a GC without H1B and vice versa. >Further, what possible reason could there be for a 6 year limit? It's a temporary visa so it has to have a term. For permanent immigration there is the EBGC.
TheCoelacanth 12y ago
The audits are practically meaningless. For instance, Tata[1] the second largest user of H1Bs gets away with paying programmers an average of $65k. They just classify them as "Computer Programmers" instead of "Software Engineers" which makes the prevailing wage much lower. [1] http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Tata-Consultancy-Services/528236.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Tata-Consultancy-Serv...

pandaman 12y ago

>Employers need to be able to demonstrate that they're not paying H1Bs less, or there is hell to pay Any source for this? I have never heard of such requirements (as well, as often cited need to prove that no citizens available for each H1B position). All you need is to pay above the prevailing wage. Which is ridiculously low anyways. >The dumb thing is that the solution is absurdly simple: just allow H1Bs to transfer sponsorship with zero penalty. What is preventing you from transferring H1B now? I had no penalties transferring my H1B twice. The mobility problem with H1B is not the transfer per se. It's the fact that to do this the company need to have immigration lawyers and have the paperwork in order (e.g. one company that wanted to hire me did not have their tax returns). So the number of the companies you cold transfer is limited. Another issue is that H1B has maximum term of 6 years, which can only be extended if there is an active AOS process (green card). Somebody with 4 years on H1B is not a very attractive hire for a company that wants more commitment from their workers.

bodyfour 12y ago
I can't claim your experience since I've never been on your side of the H1B process. I've also been out of people-management for a few years. I can say that when I was in that position it was drilled into me that you need to make sure H1's get equal pay. Just googling a bit now about H1B audits I found this: http://www.raminenilaw.com/h-1b-wage-and-hour-audits-dol-audits http://www.raminenilaw.com/h-1b-wage-and-hour-audits-dol-aud... They mention that the auditors can demand 3 years of wage data for both H1B and non-H1B's in the same employment classification. Further, see http://www.greencardapply.com/h1b/h1b_pwages.htm#sthash.DNRimWb4.dpbs http://www.greencardapply.com/h1b/h1b_pwages.htm#sthash.DNRi... "in certain programs, such as H-1B (temporary specialty occupations), the employer is required to pay the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid by the employer to workers with similar skills and qualifications, whichever is higher" I'm sure there are places that skate as close to the line as they can and do try to save money on H1Bs. However, the law is set up to avoid this and audits are much more frequent than a decade ago. > Another issue is that H1B has maximum term of 6 years My understanding -- and correct me if I'm wrong about this -- is that transferring early on isn't a big problem. If your GC isn't far along anyway then a job switch can't cause much of a delay. However, if your GC seems just around the corner (a limbo that can take years to get through) you're unlikely to risk moving jobs and throwing a wrench into the works. I can understand that the H1B process would want an employer to demonstrate that they're not bringing someone over to flood an already over-supplied local labor market. However, once an immigrant's first employer does that I don't see any reason to restrict them further. As far as I'm concerned, they've earned their visa and they should feel free to work anywhere they like. The entire concept of a human being having to be "sponsored" by a company is distasteful. Further, what possible reason could there be for a 6 year limit? If they were suitable for employment in 2008, they should still be in 2014 given that they have more experience. It's insane that we'd even threaten sending them away. It would be simpler to just start the GC process automatically with their H1B.
- pandaman 12y ago
  The audit in the first link looks like an audit of the claimed wages (on the LCA petition you submit when requesting an H1B) are same as the factual ones. I've also heard about the "ability to pay" auditing (the company has to have enough profit to support the claimed wage) and working on site (to bust body shops that sell H1Bs to another company). These are all irrelevant to companies such as Microsoft or Amazon (they are not benching their H1Bs, don't ship them off-site and pay way above prevailing wage). The LCA itself contains a promise that the wage is "average" for the employer. It is not the maximum so even if it had been enforced it would be absurd to claim that H1Bs are paid no less than citizens based on this alone. >However, if your GC seems just around the corner (a limbo that can take years to get through) you're unlikely to risk moving jobs and throwing a wrench into the works. It might be so in some cases. It's not related to H1B. H1B is a temporary worker's non-immigrant visa. Green Card is an immigrant visa. They are entirely orthogonal and you can get a GC without H1B and vice versa. >Further, what possible reason could there be for a 6 year limit? It's a temporary visa so it has to have a term. For permanent immigration there is the EBGC.

TheCoelacanth 12y ago

The audits are practically meaningless. For instance, Tata[1] the second largest user of H1Bs gets away with paying programmers an average of $65k. They just classify them as "Computer Programmers" instead of "Software Engineers" which makes the prevailing wage much lower. [1] http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Tata-Consultancy-Services/528236.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Tata-Consultancy-Serv...