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You're not going back far enough. The problem with minimum wage laws is that they precludes marginal young workers from getting job experience that would help

by tc 17y ago

You're not going back far enough. The problem with minimum wage laws is that they precludes marginal young workers from getting job experience that would help them build the skills and references needed to get better jobs. There is plenty of research showing that every time the minimum wage goes up, teenage unemployment goes up disproportionately.

teeja 17y ago
Only because,of course, employers would rather build their $300,000 homes than give a young person a break in life. Which wasn't always the case. Greed only took over about 25-30 years ago. Ever since, real wages have stagnated or fallen for the great majority of Americans. You're blaming the victim.
- jerf 17y ago
  "Greed only took over about 25-30 years ago." To which my only response can be, "bwuh?" What, was there some sort of virus that ran through the population and rewrote all our genomes so that we're suddenly selfish? Greed predates humanity. I mean that literally. For any definition of "humanity". All life forms are greedy. They have to be, to survive competition with all the other greedy life forms. If something changed 25-30 years ago, it wasn't the amount of greed in the world.
  - teeja 17y ago
    By "took over" of course, I meant "assimilated", not "came into existance." Those of us old enough to remember what this country was like 40 years ago know what I mean. Unless they're in denial about the stagnation of wages and the huge concentration of wealth at the top
  - galactus 17y ago
    The idea of being selfish as something good for society is relatively new, tho.
hristov 17y ago
Riiight. There is always an explanation. So the theory is someone is going to hire a teenager for less than minimum wage to begin with but then will give them wonderful opportunities later on. Or better yet, someone working for less than min wage will use that on their resume to great effect. It would be great if we all lived in the world of conservative economists.
- tc 17y ago
  You may take it for granted, but a major trait that employers look for is simple employability: someone that can show up on time, not cause problems, not throw attitude, and not steal from the company. I'll take someone who spent three summers lifeguarding for the same company over someone with no work experience any day. Pretend that starting a company wasn't an option for you. I guarantee there is some minimum wage level that would have knocked out the bottom rung in your career ladder.
  - warfangle 17y ago
    TBH, my career ladder didn't start until I was offered a part-time credit+pay position by my programming teacher in year 2 of community college. Before that, I was making 126% minimum wage at my first job (movie theater). So, I suppose if minimum wage had been higher I wouldn't have wasted three years of my life cleaning up used condoms and dirty diapers from the floor of a theater. But it probably wouldn't have kept me from being offered the (mostly credit) 3-month development project at the school I was going to. And arguably, that set up my career more than anything.
- anamax 17y ago
  > So the theory is someone is going to hire a teenager for less than minimum wage to begin with but then will give them wonderful opportunities later on. It's a lot like the "theory" that someone fresh out of college becomes more valuable after a couple of years of experience. Or, at the very least, has demonstrated how she is better than the typical college grad. Is hristov a counter-example to these theories? Has his/her actual or percieved value been completely constant over time, regardless of how s\he's spent that time? If it has, why is it absurd to think that time spent working might have some effect on one's value as a worker? Or is it that teenagers are different?
pradocchia 17y ago
Well, in that vein you would also have to include child labor laws, compulsory education and all the other ways that 25 has become the new 15. Adulthood came a lot sooner 100 years ago. But I'm curious, what's wrong with family cohabitation past 18? Its virtues have made it the norm across much of the world and throughout history. Modern America is a but of an outlier here ("in a good way", right? I know I know, please spare the formulaic response).

by tc 17y ago

teeja 17y ago

Only because,of course, employers would rather build their $300,000 homes than give a young person a break in life. Which wasn't always the case. Greed only took over about 25-30 years ago. Ever since, real wages have stagnated or fallen for the great majority of Americans. You're blaming the victim.

jerf 17y ago
"Greed only took over about 25-30 years ago." To which my only response can be, "bwuh?" What, was there some sort of virus that ran through the population and rewrote all our genomes so that we're suddenly selfish? Greed predates humanity. I mean that literally. For any definition of "humanity". All life forms are greedy. They have to be, to survive competition with all the other greedy life forms. If something changed 25-30 years ago, it wasn't the amount of greed in the world.
- teeja 17y ago
  By "took over" of course, I meant "assimilated", not "came into existance." Those of us old enough to remember what this country was like 40 years ago know what I mean. Unless they're in denial about the stagnation of wages and the huge concentration of wealth at the top
- galactus 17y ago
  The idea of being selfish as something good for society is relatively new, tho.

hristov 17y ago

Riiight. There is always an explanation. So the theory is someone is going to hire a teenager for less than minimum wage to begin with but then will give them wonderful opportunities later on. Or better yet, someone working for less than min wage will use that on their resume to great effect. It would be great if we all lived in the world of conservative economists.

tc 17y ago
You may take it for granted, but a major trait that employers look for is simple employability: someone that can show up on time, not cause problems, not throw attitude, and not steal from the company. I'll take someone who spent three summers lifeguarding for the same company over someone with no work experience any day. Pretend that starting a company wasn't an option for you. I guarantee there is some minimum wage level that would have knocked out the bottom rung in your career ladder.
- warfangle 17y ago
  TBH, my career ladder didn't start until I was offered a part-time credit+pay position by my programming teacher in year 2 of community college. Before that, I was making 126% minimum wage at my first job (movie theater). So, I suppose if minimum wage had been higher I wouldn't have wasted three years of my life cleaning up used condoms and dirty diapers from the floor of a theater. But it probably wouldn't have kept me from being offered the (mostly credit) 3-month development project at the school I was going to. And arguably, that set up my career more than anything.
anamax 17y ago
> So the theory is someone is going to hire a teenager for less than minimum wage to begin with but then will give them wonderful opportunities later on. It's a lot like the "theory" that someone fresh out of college becomes more valuable after a couple of years of experience. Or, at the very least, has demonstrated how she is better than the typical college grad. Is hristov a counter-example to these theories? Has his/her actual or percieved value been completely constant over time, regardless of how s\he's spent that time? If it has, why is it absurd to think that time spent working might have some effect on one's value as a worker? Or is it that teenagers are different?

pradocchia 17y ago

Well, in that vein you would also have to include child labor laws, compulsory education and all the other ways that 25 has become the new 15. Adulthood came a lot sooner 100 years ago. But I'm curious, what's wrong with family cohabitation past 18? Its virtues have made it the norm across much of the world and throughout history. Modern America is a but of an outlier here ("in a good way", right? I know I know, please spare the formulaic response).