5 ms·

US Terrorist Database Growing at Rapid Rate

50 points by rpm4321 12y ago

higherpurpose 12y ago
1.5 million "terrorists" - seriously?! This is the problem with the "haystack" mentality, instead of proper investigation-based targeting - you get a haystack of worthless leads and false positives. It does, however, have the huge benefit for those in power of knowing everything about anyone, and about all of their "enemies" (not necessarily "national security enemies"). Also, with the current policy for identifying "terrorists", don't expect to "war on terror" to ever end.
mhurron 12y ago
> August 2013, there were 700,000 names on the watch list How many of those names are incredibly common names? My dad almost missed a connecting flight in LA because he was on the 'No Fly' list. He wasn't, but his incredibly common name (like Richard Smith type common) was.
- u124556 12y ago
  Don't you have some sort of unique id to identify one person from another even if they share the same name in the US?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - mhurron 12y ago
    First off, he's not an American. His passport eventually was able to be used to prove he wasn't that 'Richard Smith.' Of course, the TSA measures their effectiveness based on how many people they make miss their flights so they don't really want to make things better. More importantly, these lists appear specifically to have been made to be generic. The government appears to want to catch everyone.
  - jrockway 12y ago
    Yes, the TSA gives you a "redress number" if you're mistaken for someone on the No Fly List. You plug that into your airline's website, and then you aren't bothered anymore. I have one! But only because I have TSA Pre✓. (Quite possibly the best government program ever.)
    - greggman 12y ago
      That was sarcasm right? Pay the oppressive government program to be less oppressive? And of course if you're poor too bad for you.
      - jrockway 12y ago
        I wasn't being sarcastic. The program is a good idea: I pay to have my background checked, and then I'm not treated like a criminal. It has some foundation based in logic (I'm pretty low-risk, compared to anyone that shows up with a plane ticket), so I'm not going to complain. And if you're super-libertarian or whatever, you should be happy that I'm paying the cost, not the taxpayer! The good news is, it appears the background check doesn't really matter. At JFK, they siphon people at random into these lines when the main line is full. This hints that the reduced scrutiny will be coming for everyone soon.
        hackuser 12y ago
        > I pay to have my background checked, and then I'm not treated like a criminal. Wow. I don't think objecting to that makes someone ... > super-libertarian or whatever I notice that people who think don't object to these programs resort to two arguments: 1) What me worry? 2) Name calling It makes me think that they don't have much of an argument, and adds to my growing conviction that there is no argument. EDIT: slight reword
        jrockway 12y ago
        Isn't dismissing my argument as "name calling" name calling?
u124556 12y ago
How many terrorist attacks have these things actually prevented? Won't it become worthless if it keeps growing?
- imaginenore 12y ago
  With a great confidence we can estimate it at zero. Security theater is just that.
cordite 12y ago
My high school Spanish teacher has to bring a form from homeland security every time to the airport, because she married someone from Argentina with a common last name. Names are the poorest identifier here.
igl 12y ago
I guess it grows with the number of Tor users.
mrinterweb 12y ago
Replace the word terrorist with communist and you have McCarthyism all over again. When citizens have to fear of being labeled as a terrorist, I can't help but see history repeating its self.
sneak 12y ago
If they are terrorists (criminals) and the government is not prosecuting them, the government is breaking the law. If they are innocent of wrongdoing (not terrorists) and the government is depriving them of rights afforded to others, the government is breaking the law.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

50 points by rpm4321 12y ago

1.5 million "terrorists" - seriously?! This is the problem with the "haystack" mentality, instead of proper investigation-based targeting - you get a haystack of worthless leads and false positives. It does, however, have the huge benefit for those in power of knowing everything about anyone, and about all of their "enemies" (not necessarily "national security enemies"). Also, with the current policy for identifying "terrorists", don't expect to "war on terror" to ever end.

mhurron 12y ago

> August 2013, there were 700,000 names on the watch list How many of those names are incredibly common names? My dad almost missed a connecting flight in LA because he was on the 'No Fly' list. He wasn't, but his incredibly common name (like Richard Smith type common) was.

u124556 12y ago
Don't you have some sort of unique id to identify one person from another even if they share the same name in the US?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- mhurron 12y ago
  First off, he's not an American. His passport eventually was able to be used to prove he wasn't that 'Richard Smith.' Of course, the TSA measures their effectiveness based on how many people they make miss their flights so they don't really want to make things better. More importantly, these lists appear specifically to have been made to be generic. The government appears to want to catch everyone.
- jrockway 12y ago
  Yes, the TSA gives you a "redress number" if you're mistaken for someone on the No Fly List. You plug that into your airline's website, and then you aren't bothered anymore. I have one! But only because I have TSA Pre✓. (Quite possibly the best government program ever.)
  - greggman 12y ago
    That was sarcasm right? Pay the oppressive government program to be less oppressive? And of course if you're poor too bad for you.
    - jrockway 12y ago
      I wasn't being sarcastic. The program is a good idea: I pay to have my background checked, and then I'm not treated like a criminal. It has some foundation based in logic (I'm pretty low-risk, compared to anyone that shows up with a plane ticket), so I'm not going to complain. And if you're super-libertarian or whatever, you should be happy that I'm paying the cost, not the taxpayer! The good news is, it appears the background check doesn't really matter. At JFK, they siphon people at random into these lines when the main line is full. This hints that the reduced scrutiny will be coming for everyone soon.
      - hackuser 12y ago
        > I pay to have my background checked, and then I'm not treated like a criminal. Wow. I don't think objecting to that makes someone ... > super-libertarian or whatever I notice that people who think don't object to these programs resort to two arguments: 1) What me worry? 2) Name calling It makes me think that they don't have much of an argument, and adds to my growing conviction that there is no argument. EDIT: slight reword
        jrockway 12y ago
        Isn't dismissing my argument as "name calling" name calling?

u124556 12y ago

How many terrorist attacks have these things actually prevented? Won't it become worthless if it keeps growing?

imaginenore 12y ago
With a great confidence we can estimate it at zero. Security theater is just that.

cordite 12y ago

My high school Spanish teacher has to bring a form from homeland security every time to the airport, because she married someone from Argentina with a common last name. Names are the poorest identifier here.

igl 12y ago

I guess it grows with the number of Tor users.

mrinterweb 12y ago

Replace the word terrorist with communist and you have McCarthyism all over again. When citizens have to fear of being labeled as a terrorist, I can't help but see history repeating its self.

sneak 12y ago

If they are terrorists (criminals) and the government is not prosecuting them, the government is breaking the law. If they are innocent of wrongdoing (not terrorists) and the government is depriving them of rights afforded to others, the government is breaking the law.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]