4 ms·

"The company can't seem to attract experienced software developers to move" ... at the price you're willing to pay, I assume. "Compensation and benefits are r

"The company can't seem to attract experienced software developers to move" ... at the price you're willing to pay, I assume. "Compensation and benefits are reasonable as well, considering the low cost of living" This seems to confirm my assumption. The benefit of having lower costs would be so I can save more, but if the pay is less then what is the benefit?

freehunter 12y ago
That's my biggest problem living in the midwest. I never want to move to SF or NY or places with massively high cost of living (because of the cost of living), but the pay seems to scale directly in line with cost of living anyway. If I have 20% discretionary income no matter where I am living, why would I not move to someplace more exciting? Although I don't know if I would be able to stomach a cut from $250k/yr in SF to $70k/yr in Iowa, even if cost of living decreased to match.
- trhway 12y ago
  >a cut from $250k/yr in SF to $70k/yr in Iowa, even if cost of living decreased to match. A BMW costs about the same, be it SF or Iowa. Retirement to Florida (or to France, or to Costa Rica) costs the same, be it SF or Iowa. ... In addition, being laid off in Iowa and being laid off in SF means 2 completely different situations - catastrophe vs. a chance at exploring new (and better) opportunities ... Edit: to give due to Iowa - a young male driving a BMW there would probably get at least some attention while in SF one probably needs Tesla at least :)
  - nicholas73 12y ago
    There is something to be said about the farm raised hotties.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    A BMW costs the same, but it doesn't matter if you're making $200k or $50k if you're not actually pocketing the difference. If you're only pocketing $1k each month in either place, the BMW costs the same and still takes the same amount of time to save up for. And about your being laid off in the Midwest... sometimes I think people believe that every Midwest city has to shut down their main street whenever the cows need to cross...
    - maxsilver 12y ago
      > sometimes I think people believe that every Midwest city has to shut down their main street whenever the cows need to cross... As someone who's lived in the Midwest my whole life, and is here right now, that's not an unfair assumption in any way.
      - freehunter 12y ago
        I've not once seen a cow walking in the Chicago Loop or downtown Indianapolis.
    - grayrest 12y ago
      > If you're only pocketing $1k each month in either place, the BMW costs the same and still takes the same amount of time to save up for. I spend about $2100/mo for two people living in Manhattan (83rd & 1st). I'm a frugal person (cook my own food, only spend $1k/year on tech and use what I have for 4 years or so, etc) so the increased base translates into $10k+ in my pocket every year. I know other people aren't in the same situation and I do spend more than I would living elsewhere but as-is the increased base works heavily in my favor even after the extra NYC metro taxes.
    - poulsbohemian 12y ago
      I went to school in Iowa, so I recognize that the midwest is a great place, but the reality is that for those people at Microsoft in Redmond about to get laid off, they will just go over to Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. In Des Moines or Cedar Rapids if you are good you'll be able to name your gig, but there are simply fewer gigs to go around and the compensation can't compete.
      - e15ctr0n 12y ago
        Most of the job cuts in Microsoft will come from its Nokia unit in Finland[1] where, to use your own words, there are fewer gigs to go around. Compounding the problems is that Finland is in the middle of a long recession and unemployment is about 10.7 percent[2]. [1] http://online.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-layoffs-hit-nokias-finland-1405624498 http://online.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-layoffs-hit-nokias-... [2] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-17/microsoft-job-cuts-provoke-finnish-demands-as-recession-drags-on.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-17/microsoft-job-cuts-...
- mark-r 12y ago
  As a resident of flyover country I look at it the opposite way - why would I move to the coast for higher pay only to have it soaked up in living expenses? Even with that I'd probably be downgrading my housing, and there are other aspects of my lifestyle that I'd miss. And do you really think the pay disparity is that extreme?
  - freehunter 12y ago
    If, at the end of the day, your discretionary income is the same, does it matter? You make more money, you pay more in expenses, and when all is said and done you still have $1000/mo to spend on whatever you want or put in savings. So your higher pay being soaked up in living expenses nets you exactly the same as the lower pay with less living expenses. It doesn't matter if the pay disparity is as high as I mentioned. What matters is what you take home after your bills are paid. And it's exactly the same in my research. Which is why I moved to another part of the midwest when I moved, and not to SF or NY.
  - poulsbohemian 12y ago
    We moved to a rural area (nearest large city is a 4 hour drive) four years ago and I'd agree with the other commenters that housing is the only cost that decreased any - and even that is almost irrelevant as people fleeing cities have increased house prices and/or market manipulation has worked to keep housing costs relatively high. Sure you can buy a double-wide or a serious fixer-upper here that you'd never find in the city, but if you want a typical 3 bedroom middle class house you aren't getting much of a discount. The truth is, I feel more compelled to increase my income and saving now because of the lack of opportunities in the local economy. My income is entirely from non-local customers and if my sales pipeline ever dried up I'd have no option but to move. This is basically at the heart of why I don't move to the midwest (where my wife would prefer to be) because it would be the same thing - you'd be the big fish in a small pond.
  - nspiegelberg 12y ago
    As someone who worked in a flyover state for 5 years and then moved to SF (then NY)... YES! The comment about the 20% discretionary income and resulting impact is also true.
smizell 12y ago
I live and work in the Midwest, and this is the situation I see a lot. We actually saw a local company move to a nearby city (two hours away) in order to find more talent, though they bumped up the salary to get that talent. I believe if they would have offered that higher salary here, they would have been fine (we actually have a university in our town). The hard part is, instead of asking, "What is the value of my work?" you have to ask "What is the value of my work here?" It's a very odd question to ask if you work for a company that is in national or global markets.

freehunter 12y ago

That's my biggest problem living in the midwest. I never want to move to SF or NY or places with massively high cost of living (because of the cost of living), but the pay seems to scale directly in line with cost of living anyway. If I have 20% discretionary income no matter where I am living, why would I not move to someplace more exciting? Although I don't know if I would be able to stomach a cut from $250k/yr in SF to $70k/yr in Iowa, even if cost of living decreased to match.

trhway 12y ago
>a cut from $250k/yr in SF to $70k/yr in Iowa, even if cost of living decreased to match. A BMW costs about the same, be it SF or Iowa. Retirement to Florida (or to France, or to Costa Rica) costs the same, be it SF or Iowa. ... In addition, being laid off in Iowa and being laid off in SF means 2 completely different situations - catastrophe vs. a chance at exploring new (and better) opportunities ... Edit: to give due to Iowa - a young male driving a BMW there would probably get at least some attention while in SF one probably needs Tesla at least :)
- nicholas73 12y ago
  There is something to be said about the farm raised hotties.
- freehunter 12y ago
  A BMW costs the same, but it doesn't matter if you're making $200k or $50k if you're not actually pocketing the difference. If you're only pocketing $1k each month in either place, the BMW costs the same and still takes the same amount of time to save up for. And about your being laid off in the Midwest... sometimes I think people believe that every Midwest city has to shut down their main street whenever the cows need to cross...
  - maxsilver 12y ago
    > sometimes I think people believe that every Midwest city has to shut down their main street whenever the cows need to cross... As someone who's lived in the Midwest my whole life, and is here right now, that's not an unfair assumption in any way.
    - freehunter 12y ago
      I've not once seen a cow walking in the Chicago Loop or downtown Indianapolis.
  - grayrest 12y ago
    > If you're only pocketing $1k each month in either place, the BMW costs the same and still takes the same amount of time to save up for. I spend about $2100/mo for two people living in Manhattan (83rd & 1st). I'm a frugal person (cook my own food, only spend $1k/year on tech and use what I have for 4 years or so, etc) so the increased base translates into $10k+ in my pocket every year. I know other people aren't in the same situation and I do spend more than I would living elsewhere but as-is the increased base works heavily in my favor even after the extra NYC metro taxes.
  - poulsbohemian 12y ago
    I went to school in Iowa, so I recognize that the midwest is a great place, but the reality is that for those people at Microsoft in Redmond about to get laid off, they will just go over to Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. In Des Moines or Cedar Rapids if you are good you'll be able to name your gig, but there are simply fewer gigs to go around and the compensation can't compete.
    - e15ctr0n 12y ago
      Most of the job cuts in Microsoft will come from its Nokia unit in Finland[1] where, to use your own words, there are fewer gigs to go around. Compounding the problems is that Finland is in the middle of a long recession and unemployment is about 10.7 percent[2]. [1] http://online.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-layoffs-hit-nokias-finland-1405624498 http://online.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-layoffs-hit-nokias-... [2] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-17/microsoft-job-cuts-provoke-finnish-demands-as-recession-drags-on.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-17/microsoft-job-cuts-...
mark-r 12y ago
As a resident of flyover country I look at it the opposite way - why would I move to the coast for higher pay only to have it soaked up in living expenses? Even with that I'd probably be downgrading my housing, and there are other aspects of my lifestyle that I'd miss. And do you really think the pay disparity is that extreme?
- freehunter 12y ago
  If, at the end of the day, your discretionary income is the same, does it matter? You make more money, you pay more in expenses, and when all is said and done you still have $1000/mo to spend on whatever you want or put in savings. So your higher pay being soaked up in living expenses nets you exactly the same as the lower pay with less living expenses. It doesn't matter if the pay disparity is as high as I mentioned. What matters is what you take home after your bills are paid. And it's exactly the same in my research. Which is why I moved to another part of the midwest when I moved, and not to SF or NY.
- poulsbohemian 12y ago
  We moved to a rural area (nearest large city is a 4 hour drive) four years ago and I'd agree with the other commenters that housing is the only cost that decreased any - and even that is almost irrelevant as people fleeing cities have increased house prices and/or market manipulation has worked to keep housing costs relatively high. Sure you can buy a double-wide or a serious fixer-upper here that you'd never find in the city, but if you want a typical 3 bedroom middle class house you aren't getting much of a discount. The truth is, I feel more compelled to increase my income and saving now because of the lack of opportunities in the local economy. My income is entirely from non-local customers and if my sales pipeline ever dried up I'd have no option but to move. This is basically at the heart of why I don't move to the midwest (where my wife would prefer to be) because it would be the same thing - you'd be the big fish in a small pond.
- nspiegelberg 12y ago
  As someone who worked in a flyover state for 5 years and then moved to SF (then NY)... YES! The comment about the 20% discretionary income and resulting impact is also true.

smizell 12y ago

I live and work in the Midwest, and this is the situation I see a lot. We actually saw a local company move to a nearby city (two hours away) in order to find more talent, though they bumped up the salary to get that talent. I believe if they would have offered that higher salary here, they would have been fine (we actually have a university in our town). The hard part is, instead of asking, "What is the value of my work?" you have to ask "What is the value of my work here?" It's a very odd question to ask if you work for a company that is in national or global markets.