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And that is a double-edged sword for the consumer. What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? What if the vendor scams me? Hav

by 67726e 12y ago

And that is a double-edged sword for the consumer. What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? What if the vendor scams me? Having a credit card gives me the chargeback process to resolve a dispute. Using Dunning-Krugerrands... sorry, bitcoin, gives me no real recourse other than to piss and moan on Twitter. I get using Bitcoin to purchase when it's questionable or you otherwise want something to be anonymous, although with a physical good it is much harder to be anonymous, but why in the hell would I care if someone knows I bought an Alienware laptop or a pack of socks on Overstock? And that is assuming they someone got ahold of my transaction records anyway.

mahyarm 12y ago
As someone else said, all those protections causes merchants to just refuse transactions to people in various countries and contexts. It creates a payment alternative for those people to buy things because merchants don't have to expose themselves to the fraud risk.
baddox 12y ago
> What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? You tell your friends or post on the Internet that they did so, and more importantly, you don't purchase things from vendors that don't have a good reputation. What do you do if a restaurant gives you horrible service? You don't sue them, because litigation is much more expensive than it's worth to you. Restaurants don't tend to provide good service out of respect for the law or fear of litigation, but rather out of the desire for continued business from customers.
- 67726e 12y ago
  Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that.
  - baddox 12y ago
    > Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. Doesn't work with cash, and might not work depending on how the credit card company's arbitration works. > The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Your physical presence is irrelevant to the analogy. The point is that acting legitimately is in the interest of both the company and the customer. > Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that. Then you're out the cost of your meal. The restaurant gets your 20 bucks, and didn't have to provide good service, which is clearly profitable for them in this isolated case. So why don't all restaurants do that?
    - 67726e 12y ago
      No, it's just fucking wrong. My point is that Bitcoin leaves the consumer defenseless. Eating at a restaurant Has nothing to do with that. I could in fact refuse to pay.
      - baddox 12y ago
        My point is that in most everyday transactions, the consumer's defense is not the legal system of the country he or she lives in (because it's too expensive to litigate most everyday transactions), but rather market mechanics like reputation and competition.
  - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
    I've yet to be so scammed by a company I purchased products from since they inherently have MUCH more to lose by being dishonest. Obviously that's anecdotal but I'm still 100% convinced the chances of being scammed by a reputable merchant is absolutely miniscule. Looking at the other side of the equation- I've had TONS of customers attempt to cheat me in one way or another. Buyers have very little to lose and are much more likely to be irrational/outright thieves than someone who took the time to build up a business. As a buyer I'll happily take a discount equal to the cost of CC transaction fees over the "buyer protections" any day of the week.

by 67726e 12y ago

mahyarm 12y ago

As someone else said, all those protections causes merchants to just refuse transactions to people in various countries and contexts. It creates a payment alternative for those people to buy things because merchants don't have to expose themselves to the fraud risk.

baddox 12y ago

> What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? You tell your friends or post on the Internet that they did so, and more importantly, you don't purchase things from vendors that don't have a good reputation. What do you do if a restaurant gives you horrible service? You don't sue them, because litigation is much more expensive than it's worth to you. Restaurants don't tend to provide good service out of respect for the law or fear of litigation, but rather out of the desire for continued business from customers.

67726e 12y ago
Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that.
- baddox 12y ago
  > Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. Doesn't work with cash, and might not work depending on how the credit card company's arbitration works. > The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Your physical presence is irrelevant to the analogy. The point is that acting legitimately is in the interest of both the company and the customer. > Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that. Then you're out the cost of your meal. The restaurant gets your 20 bucks, and didn't have to provide good service, which is clearly profitable for them in this isolated case. So why don't all restaurants do that?
  - 67726e 12y ago
    No, it's just fucking wrong. My point is that Bitcoin leaves the consumer defenseless. Eating at a restaurant Has nothing to do with that. I could in fact refuse to pay.
    - baddox 12y ago
      My point is that in most everyday transactions, the consumer's defense is not the legal system of the country he or she lives in (because it's too expensive to litigate most everyday transactions), but rather market mechanics like reputation and competition.
- Omniusaspirer 12y ago
  I've yet to be so scammed by a company I purchased products from since they inherently have MUCH more to lose by being dishonest. Obviously that's anecdotal but I'm still 100% convinced the chances of being scammed by a reputable merchant is absolutely miniscule. Looking at the other side of the equation- I've had TONS of customers attempt to cheat me in one way or another. Buyers have very little to lose and are much more likely to be irrational/outright thieves than someone who took the time to build up a business. As a buyer I'll happily take a discount equal to the cost of CC transaction fees over the "buyer protections" any day of the week.