4 ms·

Why wouldn't they want to promote the currency? Bitcoin is win-win for the merchants, with no fees and no chargebacks.

SilasX 12y ago
Like I say every time this comes up: lack of chargebacks is a mixed blessing. It puts risk on buyers, which shows up as lower demand for the product, with part of the economic incidence falling on the merchant. To the extent that it's a benefit, I would prefer it be phrased as the ability to opt out of chargback insurance, the cost of which can be shared by merchant and buyer, if it's not worth the cost.
- placeybordeaux 12y ago
  >It puts risk on buyers, which shows up as lower demand for the product Because the bitcoin crowd has shown it's self time and time again to be perfectly rational agents.
pistle 12y ago
There's no fees because you can't tell a merchant they are are going have to pay fees for handling the funny money. Do you think Dell is over the barrel with fees? It's one thing if you just got your first cheap card scanner as a merchant or use stripe. It's another thing if you bring volume. Coinbase is out there begging to be allowed to put the "Bitcoin accepted here!" sticker on any window they can so that they can put consumers in exactly the same, or worse, spot they are in now should BC become more than funny money. For moving money in shadows, there's Bitcoin. For everything else, there's MasterCard.
MichaelGG 12y ago
Coinbase doesn't charge a fee?
67726e 12y ago
And that is a double-edged sword for the consumer. What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? What if the vendor scams me? Having a credit card gives me the chargeback process to resolve a dispute. Using Dunning-Krugerrands... sorry, bitcoin, gives me no real recourse other than to piss and moan on Twitter. I get using Bitcoin to purchase when it's questionable or you otherwise want something to be anonymous, although with a physical good it is much harder to be anonymous, but why in the hell would I care if someone knows I bought an Alienware laptop or a pack of socks on Overstock? And that is assuming they someone got ahold of my transaction records anyway.
- mahyarm 12y ago
  As someone else said, all those protections causes merchants to just refuse transactions to people in various countries and contexts. It creates a payment alternative for those people to buy things because merchants don't have to expose themselves to the fraud risk.
- baddox 12y ago
  > What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? You tell your friends or post on the Internet that they did so, and more importantly, you don't purchase things from vendors that don't have a good reputation. What do you do if a restaurant gives you horrible service? You don't sue them, because litigation is much more expensive than it's worth to you. Restaurants don't tend to provide good service out of respect for the law or fear of litigation, but rather out of the desire for continued business from customers.
  - 67726e 12y ago
    Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that.
    - baddox 12y ago
      > Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. Doesn't work with cash, and might not work depending on how the credit card company's arbitration works. > The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Your physical presence is irrelevant to the analogy. The point is that acting legitimately is in the interest of both the company and the customer. > Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that. Then you're out the cost of your meal. The restaurant gets your 20 bucks, and didn't have to provide good service, which is clearly profitable for them in this isolated case. So why don't all restaurants do that?

Like I say every time this comes up: lack of chargebacks is a mixed blessing. It puts risk on buyers, which shows up as lower demand for the product, with part of the economic incidence falling on the merchant. To the extent that it's a benefit, I would prefer it be phrased as the ability to opt out of chargback insurance, the cost of which can be shared by merchant and buyer, if it's not worth the cost.

placeybordeaux 12y ago
>It puts risk on buyers, which shows up as lower demand for the product Because the bitcoin crowd has shown it's self time and time again to be perfectly rational agents.

pistle 12y ago

There's no fees because you can't tell a merchant they are are going have to pay fees for handling the funny money. Do you think Dell is over the barrel with fees? It's one thing if you just got your first cheap card scanner as a merchant or use stripe. It's another thing if you bring volume. Coinbase is out there begging to be allowed to put the "Bitcoin accepted here!" sticker on any window they can so that they can put consumers in exactly the same, or worse, spot they are in now should BC become more than funny money. For moving money in shadows, there's Bitcoin. For everything else, there's MasterCard.

MichaelGG 12y ago

Coinbase doesn't charge a fee?

67726e 12y ago

And that is a double-edged sword for the consumer. What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? What if the vendor scams me? Having a credit card gives me the chargeback process to resolve a dispute. Using Dunning-Krugerrands... sorry, bitcoin, gives me no real recourse other than to piss and moan on Twitter. I get using Bitcoin to purchase when it's questionable or you otherwise want something to be anonymous, although with a physical good it is much harder to be anonymous, but why in the hell would I care if someone knows I bought an Alienware laptop or a pack of socks on Overstock? And that is assuming they someone got ahold of my transaction records anyway.

mahyarm 12y ago
As someone else said, all those protections causes merchants to just refuse transactions to people in various countries and contexts. It creates a payment alternative for those people to buy things because merchants don't have to expose themselves to the fraud risk.
baddox 12y ago
> What if I purchase something and the vendor screws up and refuses to fix it? You tell your friends or post on the Internet that they did so, and more importantly, you don't purchase things from vendors that don't have a good reputation. What do you do if a restaurant gives you horrible service? You don't sue them, because litigation is much more expensive than it's worth to you. Restaurants don't tend to provide good service out of respect for the law or fear of litigation, but rather out of the desire for continued business from customers.
- 67726e 12y ago
  Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that.
  - baddox 12y ago
    > Or better yet, I just issue a chargeback and get my damned money back. Doesn't work with cash, and might not work depending on how the credit card company's arbitration works. > The restaurant is just a terrible retort. I'm physically in a location to receive a service. This has nothing to do with paying for a product and not receiving it. Your physical presence is irrelevant to the analogy. The point is that acting legitimately is in the interest of both the company and the customer. > Of course if I'm receiving bad service in a restaurant I will speak with the manager. If he refuses to speak or help I will demand a check and pay without tipping. Simple as that. Then you're out the cost of your meal. The restaurant gets your 20 bucks, and didn't have to provide good service, which is clearly profitable for them in this isolated case. So why don't all restaurants do that?