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Couldn't it be said that math itself just another language used to describe deeper processes?

thanatropism 12y ago
Gilles Deleuze says math is not a science, but a "prodigious argot". Argot is something between "slang" and "dialect".
pfitzsimmons 12y ago
Math, English, Python, Chinese, Ruby - these are all just languages. Programming languages and Math are simply languages designed to be good at describing phenomena that can be defined with precision. Programming languages are optimized for describing precise sequences and procedures, while the language of Math is optimized for describing precise proofs. You could actually write pretty much anything that is written in math or Python in English, but the English language has so much ambiguity that you would be more prone to making mistakes. English would also be much more verbose and would not be parseable by a computer.
- tehmaco 12y ago
  Precise English is "Legalese" - lots of definitions, qualifiers, and words having precise technical meanings.
  - john_b 12y ago
    The numerous compilers (courts) for this language frequently produce different and conflicting results, a situation which cannot be fixed but merely worked around by adopting the result of a master compiler as the authoritative version. The compilation process is also quite slow and very expensive. So if legalese can be considered a precise, formal language, it must be considered one with an extraordinary amount of undefined behavior.
  - pfitzsimmons 12y ago
    It is more precise than normal English dialect, but still much less precise than math or python. At root, the phenomena that legalese describes are often imprecise. For instance, there is no perfectly precise way to describe the boundaries of a non-compete agreement, or what exactly constitutes "negligence." (This is why we cannot actually replace law with code)
lmg643 12y ago
Agreed. My first thought was also along these lines: Programming is not math, but it is logic, and math is almost always a purer and more demanding expression of logic than language. Logic is important because programs always have to "resolve" into something specific in order to compile and have a result. Most usage of language is devoid of structured logic, or "fuzzy" logic, and is poor training. Just writing and reading this post is an example. I'm trying to be logical, but logic and persuasion in language is a different ball game - the reader is the "compiler" and as we know, they all work differently. :) So, if you aren't comfortable with math or engineering on at least some level, you're going to be operating at a disadvantage as a programmer IMHO. Doesn't mean you can't do be a programmer "at all", but the most demanding environments will continue to require it.
rubiquity 12y ago
I agree with you. I didn't understand, or even really care for math, until math was described to me as a description language for abstractions. If the author had taken the time to make this understanding as well she would have realized people that are "good" at math get programming just as well as people that are good at Japanese/French/whatever is because they are both languages.

Gilles Deleuze says math is not a science, but a "prodigious argot". Argot is something between "slang" and "dialect".

Math, English, Python, Chinese, Ruby - these are all just languages. Programming languages and Math are simply languages designed to be good at describing phenomena that can be defined with precision. Programming languages are optimized for describing precise sequences and procedures, while the language of Math is optimized for describing precise proofs. You could actually write pretty much anything that is written in math or Python in English, but the English language has so much ambiguity that you would be more prone to making mistakes. English would also be much more verbose and would not be parseable by a computer.

tehmaco 12y ago
Precise English is "Legalese" - lots of definitions, qualifiers, and words having precise technical meanings.
- john_b 12y ago
  The numerous compilers (courts) for this language frequently produce different and conflicting results, a situation which cannot be fixed but merely worked around by adopting the result of a master compiler as the authoritative version. The compilation process is also quite slow and very expensive. So if legalese can be considered a precise, formal language, it must be considered one with an extraordinary amount of undefined behavior.
- pfitzsimmons 12y ago
  It is more precise than normal English dialect, but still much less precise than math or python. At root, the phenomena that legalese describes are often imprecise. For instance, there is no perfectly precise way to describe the boundaries of a non-compete agreement, or what exactly constitutes "negligence." (This is why we cannot actually replace law with code)

lmg643 12y ago

Agreed. My first thought was also along these lines: Programming is not math, but it is logic, and math is almost always a purer and more demanding expression of logic than language. Logic is important because programs always have to "resolve" into something specific in order to compile and have a result. Most usage of language is devoid of structured logic, or "fuzzy" logic, and is poor training. Just writing and reading this post is an example. I'm trying to be logical, but logic and persuasion in language is a different ball game - the reader is the "compiler" and as we know, they all work differently. :) So, if you aren't comfortable with math or engineering on at least some level, you're going to be operating at a disadvantage as a programmer IMHO. Doesn't mean you can't do be a programmer "at all", but the most demanding environments will continue to require it.

rubiquity 12y ago

I agree with you. I didn't understand, or even really care for math, until math was described to me as a description language for abstractions. If the author had taken the time to make this understanding as well she would have realized people that are "good" at math get programming just as well as people that are good at Japanese/French/whatever is because they are both languages.