8 ms·

How to Get a Job Using a Technology You Don't Know

51 points by jasonswett 12y ago

chairmankaga 12y ago
Seems to be overloaded, cached: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.jasonswett.net/how-to-get-a-job-using-a-technology-you-dont-know/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.jas...
coreymgilmore 12y ago
For those of you getting a DB error: http://web.archive.org/web/20140718143333/http://www.jasonswett.net/how-to-get-a-job-using-a-technology-you-dont-know/ http://web.archive.org/web/20140718143333/http://www.jasonsw...
- jasonswett 12y ago
  Thanks. Didn't expect to make first page. Working on getting the actual site back up.
jsaxton86 12y ago
Summary: If you want to learn a new technology, consider implementing a side project with that technology.
- jere 12y ago
  It's a fine article, but the implied answer to the title is: you can't. Know the technology, then get the job. I was hoping it was about getting a job when you wouldn't know the technology until you started.
  - jasonswett 12y ago
    You can come pretty close. For example, I spend maybe 15-20 hours teaching myself AngularJS, and then the next AngularJS work I did was paid work. Also, if you get a job where you have at least partial control over the technologies you use, you can of course get paid to use a technology with which you have no experience. I would actually prefer to get a little non-paid experience first, though, in fairness to the person paying me. (Unless the boss/client is cool with paying me to learn.)
  - reledi 12y ago
    I got a job as a Rails developer without knowing Rails. Here's how I did it. I went out to local community events with a focus on software and networked with other developers. Word got out that I (a student at the time) was a competent developer with open source experience. When I graduated, a few of my new developer friends tried to recruit me. I took a job at a local startup as a software developer. I was going to build a new product, though the tech stack wasn't decided yet. Soon it was decided to be Ruby on Rails. I worked through the Rails guide on building your own blog, then continued to learn it on the job by doing a small project that shipped. At that point I had enough experience to design the important project and start building it. It's worth noting that while learning Ruby/Rails, I completely surrounded myself with resources. I would answer questions on StackOverflow, follow Rails blogs, watch screencasts, hang out in the IRC channels, read and review Ruby books, watch and learn from public projects on GitHub, etc.
  - eldavido 12y ago
    This is good advice but it really depends on whether the client/company views software as a revenue driver in its own right, or a means to an end. For places that use (not make) software, the best bet is always to focus on solving the client's problem in as economical a way as possible, irrespective of the technology used.
- larrydag 12y ago
  This is basically called Sharpening the Saw with 7 Habits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effe... I'm surprised at how often I go back to the book and see it applicable to my life.
  - jasonswett 12y ago
    That's one of my favorite books. You could also say that this is an application of Be Proactive (decide what technologies you want to learn rather than only using the technologies handed to you) and Begin With The End In Mind (I eventually want to be an expert AngularJS developer with plenty of production experience).
  - suyash 12y ago
    Sharpening the saw is actually not the same. It means taking a break from what you're doing to come back more effectively at the task in hand.
cheepin 12y ago
Cached version, because it's down for me: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:iG01hdgwv6kJ:www.jasonswett.net/how-to-get-a-job-using-a-technology-you-dont-know/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:iG01hdg...
eklavya 12y ago
Still it's pretty hard to sell GitHub projects to HR drones who want "commercial experience" and might not even know about GitHub. No matter how good your code is, if it's not seen by someone who can judge it, you can't even get your foot in the door.
- beeskneecaps 12y ago
  My solution to this is to write beautifully formatted README.md's with demo links and gifs. Since most HR (and most engineering managers) aren't going to clone your repo and install your code to test it, this is the most efficient way to illustrate your awesomeness. I just record the desktop with QuickTime screen record then edit in something like GifBrewery to get brief gif loops. You'll want to make sure the demos are short and to the point... maybe 15 seconds per gif.
  - eklavya 12y ago
    I don't expect them to clone my repo and see my work AND I don't expect them to see the readme. They won't understand (quite understandably) most of the work I do and it will not have any GUI candies to show either :) What you suggest is useful in many scenarios given that they are willing to go thorough the trouble of following the links and checking up the work. All they want to hear is "x years on y tech a z company". Not all of them are like this but so many are.
- jasonswett 12y ago
  The code isn't necessarily the relevant thing. My early Rails code was terrible, but my manufactured experience WAS "commercial" experience, since I had real users (in some cases paying users).
  - eklavya 12y ago
    You were lucky that you were able to find customers :) I have faced problems with HR people demanding "commercial" experience in some technology and not caring at all about your open source work.
fecak 12y ago
If we're talking about full-time salaried jobs (and not just consulting gigs), the easiest way of getting a job using a technology you don't know is to find one of the many companies that value the overall engineering background over things like syntax. For many years I recruited for companies (mostly mid/large) that would only hire engineers with a highly specific technical background - X years of this language, Y years of this framework. Then I started working with smaller shops that weren't nearly as concerned about the specific tools, but were more focused on overall software development knowledge. I've placed Ruby devs into Python shops and vice versa, Java devs into Scala and Clojure shops, etc. This is not as easily done if you're looking for someone to hire you as an independent consultant, but for perm hire it's now common.
- jghn 12y ago
  Of course now that many people have agreed that syntax is a silly thing to worry about, they've moved on to claiming that the impossibility is quickly picking up frameworks and libraries. In my career I've made drastic shifts in tech stacks, including some moves to some pretty esoteric/uncommon things. In every case I've been up to speed in a reasonable time - sure I might not be the world's expert but Good Enough. And honestly, because of that experience it's only made it easier to do so over time. I wish more people not only accepted such shifts but encouraged them as having a larger breadth of experience gives you a better vantage point in terms of design decisions and such.
  - fecak 12y ago
    I feel that this method of hiring (not based on specific languages/tools) is increasing, but I imagine the biggest beneficiaries are going to primarily be younger engineers who haven't been involved with one technology for many years. Someone writing Java for 15 years may be less likely to get interest from a small Python shop than a much less experienced Ruby dev. Ageism could potentially be a contributing factor, but I think some of it also has to do with the popularity of the languages within other language communities. If the language you know isn't generally appreciated by the hiring team, your experience may not be as highly valued.
beauzero 12y ago
...amen
hkarthik 12y ago
This is exactly how I went from not knowing Rails, to getting a high paying gig with a Fortune 100 working on a high scale Rails app within 3 years. I went from first Rails side project -> Freelance consulting -> Early Stage startup -> Acquired startup at Fortune 100.

51 points by jasonswett 12y ago

Seems to be overloaded, cached: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.jasonswett.net/how-to-get-a-job-using-a-technology-you-dont-know/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.jas...

coreymgilmore 12y ago

For those of you getting a DB error: http://web.archive.org/web/20140718143333/http://www.jasonswett.net/how-to-get-a-job-using-a-technology-you-dont-know/ http://web.archive.org/web/20140718143333/http://www.jasonsw...

jasonswett 12y ago
Thanks. Didn't expect to make first page. Working on getting the actual site back up.

jsaxton86 12y ago

Summary: If you want to learn a new technology, consider implementing a side project with that technology.

jere 12y ago
It's a fine article, but the implied answer to the title is: you can't. Know the technology, then get the job. I was hoping it was about getting a job when you wouldn't know the technology until you started.
- jasonswett 12y ago
  You can come pretty close. For example, I spend maybe 15-20 hours teaching myself AngularJS, and then the next AngularJS work I did was paid work. Also, if you get a job where you have at least partial control over the technologies you use, you can of course get paid to use a technology with which you have no experience. I would actually prefer to get a little non-paid experience first, though, in fairness to the person paying me. (Unless the boss/client is cool with paying me to learn.)
- reledi 12y ago
  I got a job as a Rails developer without knowing Rails. Here's how I did it. I went out to local community events with a focus on software and networked with other developers. Word got out that I (a student at the time) was a competent developer with open source experience. When I graduated, a few of my new developer friends tried to recruit me. I took a job at a local startup as a software developer. I was going to build a new product, though the tech stack wasn't decided yet. Soon it was decided to be Ruby on Rails. I worked through the Rails guide on building your own blog, then continued to learn it on the job by doing a small project that shipped. At that point I had enough experience to design the important project and start building it. It's worth noting that while learning Ruby/Rails, I completely surrounded myself with resources. I would answer questions on StackOverflow, follow Rails blogs, watch screencasts, hang out in the IRC channels, read and review Ruby books, watch and learn from public projects on GitHub, etc.
- eldavido 12y ago
  This is good advice but it really depends on whether the client/company views software as a revenue driver in its own right, or a means to an end. For places that use (not make) software, the best bet is always to focus on solving the client's problem in as economical a way as possible, irrespective of the technology used.
larrydag 12y ago
This is basically called Sharpening the Saw with 7 Habits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Habits_of_Highly_Effe... I'm surprised at how often I go back to the book and see it applicable to my life.
- jasonswett 12y ago
  That's one of my favorite books. You could also say that this is an application of Be Proactive (decide what technologies you want to learn rather than only using the technologies handed to you) and Begin With The End In Mind (I eventually want to be an expert AngularJS developer with plenty of production experience).
- suyash 12y ago
  Sharpening the saw is actually not the same. It means taking a break from what you're doing to come back more effectively at the task in hand.

cheepin 12y ago

Cached version, because it's down for me: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:iG01hdgwv6kJ:www.jasonswett.net/how-to-get-a-job-using-a-technology-you-dont-know/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:iG01hdg...

eklavya 12y ago

Still it's pretty hard to sell GitHub projects to HR drones who want "commercial experience" and might not even know about GitHub. No matter how good your code is, if it's not seen by someone who can judge it, you can't even get your foot in the door.

beeskneecaps 12y ago
My solution to this is to write beautifully formatted README.md's with demo links and gifs. Since most HR (and most engineering managers) aren't going to clone your repo and install your code to test it, this is the most efficient way to illustrate your awesomeness. I just record the desktop with QuickTime screen record then edit in something like GifBrewery to get brief gif loops. You'll want to make sure the demos are short and to the point... maybe 15 seconds per gif.
- eklavya 12y ago
  I don't expect them to clone my repo and see my work AND I don't expect them to see the readme. They won't understand (quite understandably) most of the work I do and it will not have any GUI candies to show either :) What you suggest is useful in many scenarios given that they are willing to go thorough the trouble of following the links and checking up the work. All they want to hear is "x years on y tech a z company". Not all of them are like this but so many are.
jasonswett 12y ago
The code isn't necessarily the relevant thing. My early Rails code was terrible, but my manufactured experience WAS "commercial" experience, since I had real users (in some cases paying users).
- eklavya 12y ago
  You were lucky that you were able to find customers :) I have faced problems with HR people demanding "commercial" experience in some technology and not caring at all about your open source work.

fecak 12y ago

If we're talking about full-time salaried jobs (and not just consulting gigs), the easiest way of getting a job using a technology you don't know is to find one of the many companies that value the overall engineering background over things like syntax. For many years I recruited for companies (mostly mid/large) that would only hire engineers with a highly specific technical background - X years of this language, Y years of this framework. Then I started working with smaller shops that weren't nearly as concerned about the specific tools, but were more focused on overall software development knowledge. I've placed Ruby devs into Python shops and vice versa, Java devs into Scala and Clojure shops, etc. This is not as easily done if you're looking for someone to hire you as an independent consultant, but for perm hire it's now common.

jghn 12y ago
Of course now that many people have agreed that syntax is a silly thing to worry about, they've moved on to claiming that the impossibility is quickly picking up frameworks and libraries. In my career I've made drastic shifts in tech stacks, including some moves to some pretty esoteric/uncommon things. In every case I've been up to speed in a reasonable time - sure I might not be the world's expert but Good Enough. And honestly, because of that experience it's only made it easier to do so over time. I wish more people not only accepted such shifts but encouraged them as having a larger breadth of experience gives you a better vantage point in terms of design decisions and such.
- fecak 12y ago
  I feel that this method of hiring (not based on specific languages/tools) is increasing, but I imagine the biggest beneficiaries are going to primarily be younger engineers who haven't been involved with one technology for many years. Someone writing Java for 15 years may be less likely to get interest from a small Python shop than a much less experienced Ruby dev. Ageism could potentially be a contributing factor, but I think some of it also has to do with the popularity of the languages within other language communities. If the language you know isn't generally appreciated by the hiring team, your experience may not be as highly valued.

beauzero 12y ago

...amen

hkarthik 12y ago

This is exactly how I went from not knowing Rails, to getting a high paying gig with a Fortune 100 working on a high scale Rails app within 3 years. I went from first Rails side project -> Freelance consulting -> Early Stage startup -> Acquired startup at Fortune 100.