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> The Ukraine Defense Ministries claim it was shot down by a BUK missile, which the separatists do have, and it would reach. Unless I'm mistaken from the descr

> The Ukraine Defense Ministries claim it was shot down by a BUK missile, which the separatists do have, and it would reach. Unless I'm mistaken from the description, it takes 3 vehicles, each serving a separate purpose, to utilize the BUK missile system - with a complex series of operations and coordination between all the components (that can only be done by trained operators). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-crash-missile/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/malaysia-airlines... The evidence against the anti-Kiev militia seems to only show the missile vehicle component. And it's unknown if it was even fully operational (aside from being drive-able on the roads). > We also have this interesting translation of Ukraine rebel leader’s VKontakte (Facebook) post regarding another downed airplane If my understanding is correct (from his other posts), the original info/report came from a post on their social site, where someone saw a plane coming down and assumed it must have been a military plane shut down by their side - and promoted it as such.

hga 12y ago
EDITED: per Wikipedia it's more complicated (see ADDED below), assuming as speculated elsewhere in this thread that they used visual means for air search, or I would note another albeit unlinked radar system: "The Buk missile system was designed to surpass the 2K12 Kub in all parameters and its designers including its chief designer Ardalion Rastov visited Egypt in 1971 to see Kub [SA-6, very effective in the Kom Kippur War 2 years later] in operation. Both the Kub and Buk used self-propelled launchers developed by Ardalion Rastov. As a result of this visit the developers came to the conclusion that each Buk transporter erector launcher (TEL) should have its own fire control radar rather than being reliant on one central radar for the whole system as in Kub. The result of this move from TEL to transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) was a system able to engage multiple targets from multiple directions at the same time." If they have a vector to feed the fire control radar, and it then succeeds in acquiring the target, I would expect it to work. Our anti-radiation missiles, plus the system's missiles until the most recent one having semi-active homing (fire control radar must paint the target), put a premium on this sort of arrangement. ADDED: I too am just learning these fine details; further down, as quoted by powertower in reply to this posting, the above ideal wasn't implemented in full, there's a normal 2-1 ratio of TELARs to TELs. And think about the implications of the TELARs being obviously more expensive: the normal ratio is unlikely to be always observed, the maintenance demands of TELARs and a high TELAR to TEL ratio is going to be higher, etc. etc.
- powertower 12y ago
  The vehicle shown in the deleted post, and the same one driving on the road, appear to be a pure TEL vehicle from the BUK system, without an integrated radar (not a TELAR vehicle)... http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FC... From wikipedia - "A standard Buk battalion consists of a command vehicle, target acquisition radar (TAR) vehicle, six transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles and three transporter erector launcher (TEL) vehicles. A Buk missile battery consists of two TELAR and one TEL vehicle." So a TEL vehicle would also require a feed from a TELAR or a TAR vehicle. Though I'm just learning about all this, so I could be completely wrong.

hga 12y ago

EDITED: per Wikipedia it's more complicated (see ADDED below), assuming as speculated elsewhere in this thread that they used visual means for air search, or I would note another albeit unlinked radar system: "The Buk missile system was designed to surpass the 2K12 Kub in all parameters and its designers including its chief designer Ardalion Rastov visited Egypt in 1971 to see Kub [SA-6, very effective in the Kom Kippur War 2 years later] in operation. Both the Kub and Buk used self-propelled launchers developed by Ardalion Rastov. As a result of this visit the developers came to the conclusion that each Buk transporter erector launcher (TEL) should have its own fire control radar rather than being reliant on one central radar for the whole system as in Kub. The result of this move from TEL to transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) was a system able to engage multiple targets from multiple directions at the same time." If they have a vector to feed the fire control radar, and it then succeeds in acquiring the target, I would expect it to work. Our anti-radiation missiles, plus the system's missiles until the most recent one having semi-active homing (fire control radar must paint the target), put a premium on this sort of arrangement. ADDED: I too am just learning these fine details; further down, as quoted by powertower in reply to this posting, the above ideal wasn't implemented in full, there's a normal 2-1 ratio of TELARs to TELs. And think about the implications of the TELARs being obviously more expensive: the normal ratio is unlikely to be always observed, the maintenance demands of TELARs and a high TELAR to TEL ratio is going to be higher, etc. etc.

powertower 12y ago
The vehicle shown in the deleted post, and the same one driving on the road, appear to be a pure TEL vehicle from the BUK system, without an integrated radar (not a TELAR vehicle)... http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FC... From wikipedia - "A standard Buk battalion consists of a command vehicle, target acquisition radar (TAR) vehicle, six transporter erector launcher and radar (TELAR) vehicles and three transporter erector launcher (TEL) vehicles. A Buk missile battery consists of two TELAR and one TEL vehicle." So a TEL vehicle would also require a feed from a TELAR or a TAR vehicle. Though I'm just learning about all this, so I could be completely wrong.