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As far as I can gather, it takes 3 vehicles, each serving a separate purpose, to utilize the BUK missile system - with a complex series of operations and coord

As far as I can gather, it takes 3 vehicles, each serving a separate purpose, to utilize the BUK missile system - with a complex series of operations and coordination between it all (that can only be done by trained operators). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system The evidence against the anti-Kiev militia seems to only show the missile vehicle component, and some promotional info (made by the leader of the militia) about a second military plane being shot down by them... With that post then deleted, and clarified - that the info originated from some type of a social site where someone saw a plane going down, assumed it was a military plane shut down by their side, and passed the info up the chain. On the other hand, the Ukrainian military seemed to have moved a bunch of BUK systems into the area just days ago, and declared the region a no-fly zone. They also shut down an Israeli passenger flight in 2001 by mistake using a similar type of missile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 On top of that, Putin's own transportation plane intersected the flight path of the crashed plane just 30 minutes before. http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/ Adding even more to this story, are videos of Ukrainian media personalities and officials, swearing that [given the chance] Putin should be killed (or that it would be reasonable for someone to do so). http://rt.com/news/169160-ukraine-mp-putin-kill/ http://rt.com/news/169160-ukraine-mp-putin-kill/ What you are going to see in the next couple of days is the western media proclaiming how it's obvious that this is the anti-Kiev militants and Russia's fault, presenting a very one-sided POV. Hopefully there is enough gathered intelligence and recorded data, that can be released, that will show exactly how and from where this missile was launched. When this happens, unless it confirms the narrative, it will simply go unnoticed by the media. *edit: it looks like RT has edited & updated the information about Putin's plane flying the same route as being possibly incorrect.

izacus 12y ago
On the other hand, your POV is extremely one-sided as well.
- trhway 12y ago
  it is your conclusions from his post what are extremely one-sided. You need to have an idea what a missile system capable of reaching 10000m is and the BUK system in particular. After getting that understanding, you'd not be surprised at reaching the same conclusion.
ariwilson 12y ago
This is the perfect example of a post twisting a small amount of "evidence" with terrible sourcing ("I've seen", no linking, Russia Today has "sources saying") into a narrative that supports their political agenda. I'm going to print this out and use this in a poly sci class :).
Tossrock 12y ago
As an effective organ of the state and propaganda machine, I don't think Russia Today is a reliable source. There is also the matter of a rebel leader claiming to have shot down a plane at the exact time and location of MH17, only misidentifying it as a military transport: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live#block-53c81146e4b024b6f329c4ce http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlin... Your post history also seems to suggest a lack of neutrality on the subject.
pdabbadabba 12y ago
It's plausible, but I'd say there's good reason to prefer the theory that separatists shot the plane down unintentionally. In particular: 1) The now removed vk.com page of Col. Igor Strelkov, leader of the pro-Russian separatists, bragging earlier today about shooting down an AN-26 and posting video that we now know to be of the MH17 crash site. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3... 2) An apparent (and alleged) recording of a phone call between separatists and a Russian intelligence official in which they admit to accidentally shooting down a civilian airliner. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-do... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/109... (The video had been posted to youtube, but has now been removed.) 3) If you read the headline of the RT today article you linked to, you'll see that Russian officials have contradicted the Interfax report about the Presidential plane flying over Ukraine. It 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time.' (Though, in fairness to you, the story was not originally posted with that additional information. Perhaps it was updated since you wrote your comment.) None of this is conclusive, and some of it is particularly suspect since it comes from the Ukrainian government, which clearly has an interest here. But the picture as it is developing so far is pretty ugly for the separatists.

izacus 12y ago

On the other hand, your POV is extremely one-sided as well.

trhway 12y ago
it is your conclusions from his post what are extremely one-sided. You need to have an idea what a missile system capable of reaching 10000m is and the BUK system in particular. After getting that understanding, you'd not be surprised at reaching the same conclusion.

ariwilson 12y ago

This is the perfect example of a post twisting a small amount of "evidence" with terrible sourcing ("I've seen", no linking, Russia Today has "sources saying") into a narrative that supports their political agenda. I'm going to print this out and use this in a poly sci class :).

Tossrock 12y ago

As an effective organ of the state and propaganda machine, I don't think Russia Today is a reliable source. There is also the matter of a rebel leader claiming to have shot down a plane at the exact time and location of MH17, only misidentifying it as a military transport: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live#block-53c81146e4b024b6f329c4ce http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlin... Your post history also seems to suggest a lack of neutrality on the subject.

pdabbadabba 12y ago

It's plausible, but I'd say there's good reason to prefer the theory that separatists shot the plane down unintentionally. In particular: 1) The now removed vk.com page of Col. Igor Strelkov, leader of the pro-Russian separatists, bragging earlier today about shooting down an AN-26 and posting video that we now know to be of the MH17 crash site. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3... 2) An apparent (and alleged) recording of a phone call between separatists and a Russian intelligence official in which they admit to accidentally shooting down a civilian airliner. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-do... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/109... (The video had been posted to youtube, but has now been removed.) 3) If you read the headline of the RT today article you linked to, you'll see that Russian officials have contradicted the Interfax report about the Presidential plane flying over Ukraine. It 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time.' (Though, in fairness to you, the story was not originally posted with that additional information. Perhaps it was updated since you wrote your comment.) None of this is conclusive, and some of it is particularly suspect since it comes from the Ukrainian government, which clearly has an interest here. But the picture as it is developing so far is pretty ugly for the separatists.