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So you're saying that if I overpromise something and get a bunch of people to give me money for it, I have an escape hatch to never repay the money? Then it's a

by beering 12y ago

So you're saying that if I overpromise something and get a bunch of people to give me money for it, I have an escape hatch to never repay the money? Then it's appealing to start some BS kickstarters, never deliver, and never refund the backers (and isn't that a problem already?). Is Yogscast to blame? Sure - they misled people into paying for overhyped vaporware by throwing their name on it. They also have the money to refund people, and right now they're trying to hang on to their money as tightly as they can.

tinco 12y ago
No, because that would be mismanagement, it would make you liable for a lawsuit by the backers. The government would hold you personally responsible for the debt of your LLC and you might go to jail. There's no escape hatch, this is business. Yogscast has nothing to do with this endeavour, it's a separate LLC that attempted to make money. I don't see why Yogscast would not try to hang on to their money. They have mouths to feed as well don't they? I don't get why people are out for blood over $50 lost on a bet.
- smacktoward 12y ago
  > Yogscast has nothing to do with this endeavour, it's a separate LLC that attempted to make money As TFA notes, the entire Kickstarter page (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogvent...) is written from the perspective of Yogscast. "We feel incredibly lucky to have been given the opportunity to entertain you as we play games made by other people..." "Countless times we've felt limited by games and come across features we have wished we could change. 'Come On Blizz!' Simon would yell..." "Since we'll be helping to develop the game we'll be able to ask YOU the players what features you want and actually have them created..." "We aren't programmers or artists but luckily we have close friends at Winterkewl Games who are..." "We started concept work and pre-production during our trip to Los Angeles in October 2011..." "Winterkewl’s artists, modelers, animators and programmers are partnering with us on this project to create the game our community wants..." "We're truly honored to have the opportunity to bring the Yogscast to life in a game of our own making..." So it's not hard to see how people could have gotten the impression their involvement in the project would be deeper than "we handed it over to those guys, blame them."
  - tinco 12y ago
    Well it could be then that the backers stand a chance of winning a lawsuit against Yogscast for misleading them. Still I think it does depend a lot on the screens the backers saw when they commited their pledges. If those clearly said Winterkewl llc, then who knows what a judge would say?
arrrg 12y ago
The escape hatch is either you going bankrupt and/or refunding people, sure. Not much of an escape hatch, really. Also, if you endorse and support something like this and it fails your reputation takes a hit. I don't think it's a big deal when it comes to luxuries like that. Also, I like kickstarter for supporting people who do cool stuff they can't finance any other way. I really don't care if they fail or not too much since I don't spend much money on it. (Hey, and for me personally it has always worked out so far.)
- sanderjd 12y ago
  Maybe we need a Kickstarter competitor that is a lot more clear in its marketing that backing a project is a donation to people making something you think is cool, with those people sending you something as thanks if they are able to. I get so frustrated with the perception of Kickstarter as a pre-pay store and Kickstarter's inability or unwillingness to change that perception.

by beering 12y ago

tinco 12y ago

No, because that would be mismanagement, it would make you liable for a lawsuit by the backers. The government would hold you personally responsible for the debt of your LLC and you might go to jail. There's no escape hatch, this is business. Yogscast has nothing to do with this endeavour, it's a separate LLC that attempted to make money. I don't see why Yogscast would not try to hang on to their money. They have mouths to feed as well don't they? I don't get why people are out for blood over $50 lost on a bet.

smacktoward 12y ago
> Yogscast has nothing to do with this endeavour, it's a separate LLC that attempted to make money As TFA notes, the entire Kickstarter page (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogvent...) is written from the perspective of Yogscast. "We feel incredibly lucky to have been given the opportunity to entertain you as we play games made by other people..." "Countless times we've felt limited by games and come across features we have wished we could change. 'Come On Blizz!' Simon would yell..." "Since we'll be helping to develop the game we'll be able to ask YOU the players what features you want and actually have them created..." "We aren't programmers or artists but luckily we have close friends at Winterkewl Games who are..." "We started concept work and pre-production during our trip to Los Angeles in October 2011..." "Winterkewl’s artists, modelers, animators and programmers are partnering with us on this project to create the game our community wants..." "We're truly honored to have the opportunity to bring the Yogscast to life in a game of our own making..." So it's not hard to see how people could have gotten the impression their involvement in the project would be deeper than "we handed it over to those guys, blame them."
- tinco 12y ago
  Well it could be then that the backers stand a chance of winning a lawsuit against Yogscast for misleading them. Still I think it does depend a lot on the screens the backers saw when they commited their pledges. If those clearly said Winterkewl llc, then who knows what a judge would say?

arrrg 12y ago

The escape hatch is either you going bankrupt and/or refunding people, sure. Not much of an escape hatch, really. Also, if you endorse and support something like this and it fails your reputation takes a hit. I don't think it's a big deal when it comes to luxuries like that. Also, I like kickstarter for supporting people who do cool stuff they can't finance any other way. I really don't care if they fail or not too much since I don't spend much money on it. (Hey, and for me personally it has always worked out so far.)

sanderjd 12y ago
Maybe we need a Kickstarter competitor that is a lot more clear in its marketing that backing a project is a donation to people making something you think is cool, with those people sending you something as thanks if they are able to. I get so frustrated with the perception of Kickstarter as a pre-pay store and Kickstarter's inability or unwillingness to change that perception.