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There have been reports of this bad boy deployed in Russian controlled areas of Ukraine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.or

There have been reports of this bad boy deployed in Russian controlled areas of Ukraine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system This could take out a 777 trivially either. I wouldn't put it past Putin to give control of this to his proxy soldiers or fuck up trying to shoot down what they detected as a Uke fighter or cargo jet. This is the system the Uke military has been blaming on shooting down their jets.

k-mcgrady 12y ago
I also heard a report that rebels were reported to have access to a BUK.
- darthgoogle 12y ago
  The rebels respond: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-disappears-over-ukraine-feared-shot-down-by-missile/2014/07/17/0fffe1e6-0dcb-11e4-8341-b8072b1e7348_story.html?hpid=z1 http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/malaysia-airlines... >“The plane was shot down by the Ukrainian side,” said Serhiy Kavtaradze, a member of the rebels’ security council, according to the Russia’s Interfax news agency. “We simply do not have such air defense systems.” He said rebels’ shoulder-launched antiaircraft missiles “have a firing range of only 3,000 to 4,000 meters” and that passenger jets fly at much higher altitudes. He denied that the rebels possess the SA-17 Buk air-defense as Kiev alleges."
  - john_b 12y ago
    Apparently a rebel leader was bragging about having captured a Buk, but the post has now been deleted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8048729https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8048729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8048729https://news.yco...
darthgoogle 12y ago
Why so quick to blame the Russians? Would you not put it past the Ukraine backed neo-nazis, which even the state-funded BBC now admit exist, trying to widen the conflict and drag third parties into the fight? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329
- pdabbadabba 12y ago
  Anything's possible, I suppose. But the rebels and/or Russians are the only ones to have shot down any aircraft in this episode so far (so far as I know). And if the goal is to broaden the conflict, a Malaysian Airlines flight is a pretty odd choice when there were numerous other flights operated by big western airlines (British Airways, Lufthansa, etc.) also flying in the area. There's also the fact that Ukranian officials have specifically said that Russian-backed rebels shot the plane down. We shouldn't accept those statements uncritically, but they're out there and they are worthy of some consideration. Meanwhile, I'm not aware of anyone credible, who is in a position to know, asserting that Ukraine is behind this.
  - darthgoogle 12y ago
    We simply don't know what happened and we should heed the warnings from missing flight MH370 where all kinds of media reports and intelligence turned out to be worthless. Sadly too many parties have an incentive to shape the narrative and they will use anonymous "tips" to push the frenzied media in different directions. Unless there is independent, corroborated and conclusive evidence, we may never know what happened to this flight.
- kordless 12y ago
  You are making an ad hominem argument. Just because there exists a mention of neo-nazis by a relevant news organizations does not LOGICALLY imply that group, or those people associated with that group, shot down the airline. On the other hand, knowing a Buk was deployed in the region where the plane was shot down (and the fact it was shot down in separatist territory to boot) is a much more compelling line of reasoning than what you've put down here. I get that you may be angry about this, but that doesn't justify making up a rationalization about it. FWIW, I don't like neo-nazis or people who shoot down innocent civilians who weren't even involved in the area (other than being over it) to begin with. Whoever did this will be determined. Are you OK with accepting the outcome when it is?
  - darthgoogle 12y ago

k-mcgrady 12y ago

I also heard a report that rebels were reported to have access to a BUK.

darthgoogle 12y ago
The rebels respond: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-disappears-over-ukraine-feared-shot-down-by-missile/2014/07/17/0fffe1e6-0dcb-11e4-8341-b8072b1e7348_story.html?hpid=z1 http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/malaysia-airlines... >“The plane was shot down by the Ukrainian side,” said Serhiy Kavtaradze, a member of the rebels’ security council, according to the Russia’s Interfax news agency. “We simply do not have such air defense systems.” He said rebels’ shoulder-launched antiaircraft missiles “have a firing range of only 3,000 to 4,000 meters” and that passenger jets fly at much higher altitudes. He denied that the rebels possess the SA-17 Buk air-defense as Kiev alleges."
- john_b 12y ago
  Apparently a rebel leader was bragging about having captured a Buk, but the post has now been deleted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8048729https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8048729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8048729https://news.yco...

darthgoogle 12y ago

Why so quick to blame the Russians? Would you not put it past the Ukraine backed neo-nazis, which even the state-funded BBC now admit exist, trying to widen the conflict and drag third parties into the fight? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329

pdabbadabba 12y ago
Anything's possible, I suppose. But the rebels and/or Russians are the only ones to have shot down any aircraft in this episode so far (so far as I know). And if the goal is to broaden the conflict, a Malaysian Airlines flight is a pretty odd choice when there were numerous other flights operated by big western airlines (British Airways, Lufthansa, etc.) also flying in the area. There's also the fact that Ukranian officials have specifically said that Russian-backed rebels shot the plane down. We shouldn't accept those statements uncritically, but they're out there and they are worthy of some consideration. Meanwhile, I'm not aware of anyone credible, who is in a position to know, asserting that Ukraine is behind this.
- darthgoogle 12y ago
  We simply don't know what happened and we should heed the warnings from missing flight MH370 where all kinds of media reports and intelligence turned out to be worthless. Sadly too many parties have an incentive to shape the narrative and they will use anonymous "tips" to push the frenzied media in different directions. Unless there is independent, corroborated and conclusive evidence, we may never know what happened to this flight.
kordless 12y ago
You are making an ad hominem argument. Just because there exists a mention of neo-nazis by a relevant news organizations does not LOGICALLY imply that group, or those people associated with that group, shot down the airline. On the other hand, knowing a Buk was deployed in the region where the plane was shot down (and the fact it was shot down in separatist territory to boot) is a much more compelling line of reasoning than what you've put down here. I get that you may be angry about this, but that doesn't justify making up a rationalization about it. FWIW, I don't like neo-nazis or people who shoot down innocent civilians who weren't even involved in the area (other than being over it) to begin with. Whoever did this will be determined. Are you OK with accepting the outcome when it is?
- darthgoogle 12y ago