7 ms·

Women Are Sort Of More Tentative Than Men, Aren't They?

21 points by restruct 17y ago

mdasen 17y ago
It's a poor title for the article since the conclusion of the article is that both men and women are tentative about subjects that are considered the domain of the opposite gender while having the same level of tentativeness within gender-neutral topics. It's interesting research and I hope the follow it up with how it affects things that have great social impact (like job interviews, how people work in an office, etc).
- Alex3917 17y ago
  The title is brilliant. Not only is it self-referrential humor, but it sets up an expectancy violation as well. While this doesn't help people who only read the headline to understand the conclusion, it helps people who did read the article to remember it better. (C.f. Made to Stick)
justin_hancock 17y ago
It's a generally meaningless article. It says that people are tentative when they are unsure of a subject regardless of gender. Plenty of weasles words in the article that confirm my point words such as e.g. stereotype, typical. Making the content of the article a bit vague and woolly.
- dkarl 17y ago
  It's easy to imagine the contrary being true, that women would be more tentative in all situations, so it's a real finding. It would be even more interesting to compare results across class and geography. However, one thing bothers me: Palomares is so smug about knocking down stereotypical differences between the sexes, but his analysis depends on stereotypical differences between the sexes. He's just shuffling the stereotypes around, discarding one by depending on another. It's hardly something to be self-righteous about.
  - ekiru 17y ago
    In fact, some psychology textbooks(at least in high school) affirmatively claim that females are more tentative than males in all situations. This research seems to disprove that. It's useful to disprove untrue things that were formerly believed to be true.
dkarl 17y ago
God, I can't believing that changing a tire is still considered a masculine topic. No self-respecting American woman under forty would hesitate to pull out the jack and take care of a flat herself. Feminine helplessness went out with crew cuts, Jello molds, and green bean casseroles. Men may be generally more interested in cars, but nobody changes a tire for fun -- they change a tire when and only when they need to. Men don't have more flat tires than women, and even the nutty car enthusiasts I know don't rotate their own tires -- it's really boring, and it's much easier and quicker for a pro. So I ask again, why is it a masculine topic? (Yeah, I know the answer, but it depresses me.)
- gamache 17y ago
  Why are you upset that more men than women can change a tire? Does it upset you that more women than men can knit? Further, why do women over 40 get a pass on changing tires? I feel that eliminating gender-based barriers is almost universally a good thing. But why be bothered when the majority of a gender expresses its preference not to do something? EDIT: My aunt Sue makes a damn fine green bean casserole. I look forward to it every Thanksgiving. She also does a lot of needlepoint embroidery, often pictures of cats. She is vice president of a bank. Let people do what they want.
  - emmett 17y ago
    Why to be bothered: Because by strongly gendering arbitrary actions, you effectively do constrain people. You make it difficult for anyone to perform the action and still be considered masculine/feminine, when that action should have nothing to do with it. Not sure I think the gendering of changing car tires is really a terrible offense (or in need of change at all), but that would be the justification for why you should be bothered.
    - gamache 17y ago
      Because by strongly gendering arbitrary actions, you effectively do constrain people. But what if it isn't me that's "gendering arbitrary actions" -- what if a majority of the gender itself is doing it?
cschick2317 17y ago
I don't see why there would be much of a difference. I mean...you either know something or you aren't sure/don't know it. If I know something I'll talk without hedging...if I'm not sure then I'll hedge. Women are going to know more about stereotypically female tasks and men are going to know more about male stereotyped tasks...otherwise those tasks wouldn't be stereotyped to begin with. And it makes sense someone would hedge more when they are talking to the opposite gender about something they think that gender knows well. If I don't know something and I think someone else does, I'm not going to talk about it like I know it.
anigbrowl 17y ago
This article is interesting, but I question the broadness of the conclusion. For example British people are stereotypically reserved, while Americans are stereotypically brash and direct (of course, numerous counterexamples exist and may be exploited for comic effect). I hedge a great deal although I'm male; I'm more assertive and direct online than in person. This is learned behavior often a handicap, though not without its uses. It would be interesting to see how this conversational behavior correlates with something like a Myers-Briggs, or in pairings with different power levels (eg an undergraduate being told another experimental particiapant holds a PhD, with both assigned to solve some problem outside of their academic expertise). Or maybe it wouldn't :-|

21 points by restruct 17y ago

It's a poor title for the article since the conclusion of the article is that both men and women are tentative about subjects that are considered the domain of the opposite gender while having the same level of tentativeness within gender-neutral topics. It's interesting research and I hope the follow it up with how it affects things that have great social impact (like job interviews, how people work in an office, etc).

Alex3917 17y ago
The title is brilliant. Not only is it self-referrential humor, but it sets up an expectancy violation as well. While this doesn't help people who only read the headline to understand the conclusion, it helps people who did read the article to remember it better. (C.f. Made to Stick)

justin_hancock 17y ago

It's a generally meaningless article. It says that people are tentative when they are unsure of a subject regardless of gender. Plenty of weasles words in the article that confirm my point words such as e.g. stereotype, typical. Making the content of the article a bit vague and woolly.

dkarl 17y ago
It's easy to imagine the contrary being true, that women would be more tentative in all situations, so it's a real finding. It would be even more interesting to compare results across class and geography. However, one thing bothers me: Palomares is so smug about knocking down stereotypical differences between the sexes, but his analysis depends on stereotypical differences between the sexes. He's just shuffling the stereotypes around, discarding one by depending on another. It's hardly something to be self-righteous about.
- ekiru 17y ago
  In fact, some psychology textbooks(at least in high school) affirmatively claim that females are more tentative than males in all situations. This research seems to disprove that. It's useful to disprove untrue things that were formerly believed to be true.

dkarl 17y ago

God, I can't believing that changing a tire is still considered a masculine topic. No self-respecting American woman under forty would hesitate to pull out the jack and take care of a flat herself. Feminine helplessness went out with crew cuts, Jello molds, and green bean casseroles. Men may be generally more interested in cars, but nobody changes a tire for fun -- they change a tire when and only when they need to. Men don't have more flat tires than women, and even the nutty car enthusiasts I know don't rotate their own tires -- it's really boring, and it's much easier and quicker for a pro. So I ask again, why is it a masculine topic? (Yeah, I know the answer, but it depresses me.)

gamache 17y ago
Why are you upset that more men than women can change a tire? Does it upset you that more women than men can knit? Further, why do women over 40 get a pass on changing tires? I feel that eliminating gender-based barriers is almost universally a good thing. But why be bothered when the majority of a gender expresses its preference not to do something? EDIT: My aunt Sue makes a damn fine green bean casserole. I look forward to it every Thanksgiving. She also does a lot of needlepoint embroidery, often pictures of cats. She is vice president of a bank. Let people do what they want.
- emmett 17y ago
  Why to be bothered: Because by strongly gendering arbitrary actions, you effectively do constrain people. You make it difficult for anyone to perform the action and still be considered masculine/feminine, when that action should have nothing to do with it. Not sure I think the gendering of changing car tires is really a terrible offense (or in need of change at all), but that would be the justification for why you should be bothered.
  - gamache 17y ago
    Because by strongly gendering arbitrary actions, you effectively do constrain people. But what if it isn't me that's "gendering arbitrary actions" -- what if a majority of the gender itself is doing it?

cschick2317 17y ago

I don't see why there would be much of a difference. I mean...you either know something or you aren't sure/don't know it. If I know something I'll talk without hedging...if I'm not sure then I'll hedge. Women are going to know more about stereotypically female tasks and men are going to know more about male stereotyped tasks...otherwise those tasks wouldn't be stereotyped to begin with. And it makes sense someone would hedge more when they are talking to the opposite gender about something they think that gender knows well. If I don't know something and I think someone else does, I'm not going to talk about it like I know it.

anigbrowl 17y ago

This article is interesting, but I question the broadness of the conclusion. For example British people are stereotypically reserved, while Americans are stereotypically brash and direct (of course, numerous counterexamples exist and may be exploited for comic effect). I hedge a great deal although I'm male; I'm more assertive and direct online than in person. This is learned behavior often a handicap, though not without its uses. It would be interesting to see how this conversational behavior correlates with something like a Myers-Briggs, or in pairings with different power levels (eg an undergraduate being told another experimental particiapant holds a PhD, with both assigned to solve some problem outside of their academic expertise). Or maybe it wouldn't :-|