4 ms·

It's also a feeling of being stuck. I mean, you a 13B, where you gonna get a job? At Burger King? And you're (were) an E6; a platoon leader with responsibility

by crag 12y ago

It's also a feeling of being stuck. I mean, you a 13B, where you gonna get a job? At Burger King? And you're (were) an E6; a platoon leader with responsibility for personnel and artillery equipment worth millions and now you're flipping burgers? I've always thought the Army needed a job training problem (maybe through the VA, if nothing else) where you could "un-learn" your military skills in favor of civilian skills.

Loughla 12y ago
I live in an area that had a relatively high number of returning vets about a year ago. We instituted a job training program at our college. Many institutions, especially community colleges, provide similar programs. We have been surprised to see that some of the skills making these young people successful while serving have almost no translation into the civilian world, outside of being able to follow orders really, really well. It's easy to forget that many members of the services do jobs that don't exist in the civilian world. It's easy to forget that many returning vets enlisted at 18 and have had no practical training to ease their transition back to civilian life.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  Could you elaborate on those kinds of jobs? Obviously relative few companies hire people to plan artillery strikes, etc, but I suppose those aren't what you mean. Does a purchasing department at Big Corp really differ that much from logistics and supply work?
  - Loughla 12y ago
    It's actually less to do with military as in fighting, and more in the direct application of the skills they're supposed to have. For example: Most requests for our returning vets come from transportation and trade (we're a river town relatively close to major north/south and east/west highways and a major railway line). The largest portion of our returning vets were in the army or army national guard, in the local transportation groups. We don't have infantry in our area, we have truck drivers and mechanics. Anyway, the requests and the expertise seemed a custom fit - the soldiers ran big trucks and trains, and there is no better organization than the United States Army when it comes to large-scale logistics. Our returning vets, though, are unable to branch outside of their assigned mode of operation. The mechanics are able to work on, say, heavy machines and diesel engines so they're able to work on the trains and barges really well, but are unable to translate those skills to tractor trailers or small(ish) engines like pick-ups or delivery vans. The Army transport drivers are able to drive tractor trailers or operate barges. BUT, they do not have the certifications necessary to legally do that work stateside, AND they lack skills in the classroom to be able to sit and pass the test for the licenses. Usually it's because they have never been able to do math well, and are unable to pass a college level mathematics course (it's applied math, so it has practical applications in their jobs - not college algebra or statistics or anything like that). Along with that, they're unable to translate their existing skills into heavy machinery for construction, demolition or excavation. The leaders/officers are unable to transition out of the military 'because I said so' mentality and into the corporate 'because it's in your best interest' mentality. Our retraining in this area has been the biggest failure; they don't see the need to change their mode of people management, and we don't have a reason for them to either (other than long-term employment). The paperwork individuals, like you use in your example, transition easily. If the person worked in an office, they will come back and find employment almost immediately. This could all be helped if the military provided training ON THEIR END before they come back to the world. Believe it or not, the transition from the military to a college environment is incredibly difficult for most folks.
  - gryphonic 12y ago
    I have worked in two industries that hire a lot of ex-military with essentially a high school level of education. The first is nuclear power. A lot of the people working in the control rooms are from the military, and it is a very high paying and comfy job for someone without a college degree. The other is high skill technician and assemblers in manufacturing. The things these jobs have in common is they need a strict adherence to rules and procedures, which is something military training makes people well suited to.
    - mpyne 12y ago
      I'll note with the nuclear power example that they don't simply hire ex-military, they hire from a very specific subset of Navy nuclear propulsion workers. Even being good at following orders isn't going to help you get your civilian SRO license, but sailors who have been trained on the Navy's various reactor types have easily-transferable knowledge for civilian PWR and BWR plants, and so they get picked up quite easily in the civilian sector.
keithpeter 12y ago
"I've always thought the Army needed a job training problem (maybe through the VA, if nothing else) where you could "un-learn" your military skills in favor of civilian skills." British Army has various qualifications of its own some of which can be 'mapped' over to civilian equivalents. Mainly technical areas plus management/supervisory. I can't find a clear single source of information but I know from ex-students that the process exists. Nothing similar in US? Is this not one for the military to consider in terms of recruitment? http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/25236.aspx http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/25236.aspx
- mcguire 12y ago
  The U.S. military always advertises the skills it provides, and they are certainly present in many cases. (I know a fair number of Sea-Bees; carpenters, mechanics, electricians all have marketable skills.) On the other hand, there are limited civilian opportunities in door-kicking-in or explosive ordinance disposal. (Weirdly, I just got a job notice from my employer about an EOD position. Not it!)
- mpyne 12y ago
  The Navy has something called "COOL" which tries to map civilian certifications to equivalent Navy ratings and NECs, https://www.cool.navy.mil/ https://www.cool.navy.mil/ But I'm not sure how well it helps in practice, nor on whether other U.S. armed services have something similar.

by crag 12y ago

Loughla 12y ago

I live in an area that had a relatively high number of returning vets about a year ago. We instituted a job training program at our college. Many institutions, especially community colleges, provide similar programs. We have been surprised to see that some of the skills making these young people successful while serving have almost no translation into the civilian world, outside of being able to follow orders really, really well. It's easy to forget that many members of the services do jobs that don't exist in the civilian world. It's easy to forget that many returning vets enlisted at 18 and have had no practical training to ease their transition back to civilian life.

tomjen3 12y ago
Could you elaborate on those kinds of jobs? Obviously relative few companies hire people to plan artillery strikes, etc, but I suppose those aren't what you mean. Does a purchasing department at Big Corp really differ that much from logistics and supply work?
- Loughla 12y ago
  It's actually less to do with military as in fighting, and more in the direct application of the skills they're supposed to have. For example: Most requests for our returning vets come from transportation and trade (we're a river town relatively close to major north/south and east/west highways and a major railway line). The largest portion of our returning vets were in the army or army national guard, in the local transportation groups. We don't have infantry in our area, we have truck drivers and mechanics. Anyway, the requests and the expertise seemed a custom fit - the soldiers ran big trucks and trains, and there is no better organization than the United States Army when it comes to large-scale logistics. Our returning vets, though, are unable to branch outside of their assigned mode of operation. The mechanics are able to work on, say, heavy machines and diesel engines so they're able to work on the trains and barges really well, but are unable to translate those skills to tractor trailers or small(ish) engines like pick-ups or delivery vans. The Army transport drivers are able to drive tractor trailers or operate barges. BUT, they do not have the certifications necessary to legally do that work stateside, AND they lack skills in the classroom to be able to sit and pass the test for the licenses. Usually it's because they have never been able to do math well, and are unable to pass a college level mathematics course (it's applied math, so it has practical applications in their jobs - not college algebra or statistics or anything like that). Along with that, they're unable to translate their existing skills into heavy machinery for construction, demolition or excavation. The leaders/officers are unable to transition out of the military 'because I said so' mentality and into the corporate 'because it's in your best interest' mentality. Our retraining in this area has been the biggest failure; they don't see the need to change their mode of people management, and we don't have a reason for them to either (other than long-term employment). The paperwork individuals, like you use in your example, transition easily. If the person worked in an office, they will come back and find employment almost immediately. This could all be helped if the military provided training ON THEIR END before they come back to the world. Believe it or not, the transition from the military to a college environment is incredibly difficult for most folks.
- gryphonic 12y ago
  I have worked in two industries that hire a lot of ex-military with essentially a high school level of education. The first is nuclear power. A lot of the people working in the control rooms are from the military, and it is a very high paying and comfy job for someone without a college degree. The other is high skill technician and assemblers in manufacturing. The things these jobs have in common is they need a strict adherence to rules and procedures, which is something military training makes people well suited to.
  - mpyne 12y ago
    I'll note with the nuclear power example that they don't simply hire ex-military, they hire from a very specific subset of Navy nuclear propulsion workers. Even being good at following orders isn't going to help you get your civilian SRO license, but sailors who have been trained on the Navy's various reactor types have easily-transferable knowledge for civilian PWR and BWR plants, and so they get picked up quite easily in the civilian sector.

keithpeter 12y ago

"I've always thought the Army needed a job training problem (maybe through the VA, if nothing else) where you could "un-learn" your military skills in favor of civilian skills." British Army has various qualifications of its own some of which can be 'mapped' over to civilian equivalents. Mainly technical areas plus management/supervisory. I can't find a clear single source of information but I know from ex-students that the process exists. Nothing similar in US? Is this not one for the military to consider in terms of recruitment? http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/25236.aspx http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/25236.aspx

mcguire 12y ago
The U.S. military always advertises the skills it provides, and they are certainly present in many cases. (I know a fair number of Sea-Bees; carpenters, mechanics, electricians all have marketable skills.) On the other hand, there are limited civilian opportunities in door-kicking-in or explosive ordinance disposal. (Weirdly, I just got a job notice from my employer about an EOD position. Not it!)
mpyne 12y ago
The Navy has something called "COOL" which tries to map civilian certifications to equivalent Navy ratings and NECs, https://www.cool.navy.mil/ https://www.cool.navy.mil/ But I'm not sure how well it helps in practice, nor on whether other U.S. armed services have something similar.