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> I also didn't label or judge anyone -- disagreement with your perspective isn't sexist. > "Guys are less subtle -- we're wired to be more attracted to the bi

by nilved 12y ago

> I also didn't label or judge anyone -- disagreement with your perspective isn't sexist. > "Guys are less subtle -- we're wired to be more attracted to the binary good/bad aspect of things." > "Girls sweat the details." Upon re-reading, you might notice that you did, in fact, both label and judge. > I don't know why, but girls and boys tend to gravitate towards different types of play. And they do so very young. That's just a fact. That fact is a very controversial _opinion_ that is on the way out of mainstream thought. Certainly, it isn't a fact in the "tested and proven" sense of the word.

fleshweasel 12y ago
I am amazed by the degree of vitriol that comes out when people observe that there are differing tendencies between boys and girls. I am amazed by the tendency of social scientists to ascribe everything about that to social construction. Observations like these do not mean that a particular human being will be a certain way. They do not mean that one group is better or worse than another.
- QuantumChaos 12y ago
  I think the vitriol arises from the stranglehold progressives have on the use of "science" in public discourse. The only allow "science" to be used is used to demonstrate that women are in some sense more oppressed or less fortunate than men, or that women are more capable or good than men. There is a double standard when it comes to evidence and argumentation. In one direction, it is ok to use "science" and even "biology". In the other, it is only ok to use sociology or feminist theory.
dubfan 12y ago
> That fact is a very controversial _opinion_ that is on the way out of mainstream thought. Certainly, it isn't a fact in the "tested and proven" sense of the word. Did you read the article he linked? These differences have been demonstrated in independent studies. And contrary to what you might read on Tumblr, the knowledge that there are observable differences between boys and girls is still very much in the mainstream.
Spooky23 12y ago
With all due respect, I suggest you take a minute and read what I said instead of what you're filtering. I assume that you're deeming "Girls sweat the details" as a dismissive statement. It is not. Middle school girls demand perfection among peers. I remember vividly the hell my sister went through when she did something with her eyebrows that didn't pass muster. One circle of people she was essentially forced to spend time with basically ostracized her. Anecdotal? Yes. But that isn't an atypical story.
- davorak 12y ago
  Your first comment: > Guys are less subtle -- we're wired to be more attracted to the binary good/bad aspect of things. The male power dynamic is powerful/weak. Girls sweat the details. You clarify latter you are "offering an observation & opinion on a topic of controversy." but there was no way to tell that from the original comment. A reasonable number of people would read your first comment as a strong held believe perhaps even nearing towards stated as fact. In some the perceived strength of this statement would help them reaffirm their similar believes through the a bandwagon like effect. Conscience or otherwise, to counter act this effect many seem to respond with counteracting strong statement. > I assume that you're deeming "Girls sweat the details" as a dismissive statement. I would think it is more likely the "wired" part of your statement which many would interrupt as meaning genetically or inherently and elimianting/diminishing the involvement of social/cultural momentum.
  - Spooky23 12y ago
    I would again say that you can think whatever you want, but don't accuse and label me as something that I am not because I disagree with you. Again to address that particular issue, there is expert opinion supporting that boys are in fact wired differently: http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/aggression.html http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/aggression.html From the article: Jane Katch, author of Under Deadman's Skin: Discovering the Meaning of Children's Violent Play. "And that's a problem for a lot of boys. Some boys in my class need to move a lot. I call them 'high energy boys.' These boys simply can't sit still as long as most of the girls. They don't have the fine motor skills girls do, so many will make big constructions like block towers, while girls will work on smaller, more delicate pictures."

by nilved 12y ago

fleshweasel 12y ago

I am amazed by the degree of vitriol that comes out when people observe that there are differing tendencies between boys and girls. I am amazed by the tendency of social scientists to ascribe everything about that to social construction. Observations like these do not mean that a particular human being will be a certain way. They do not mean that one group is better or worse than another.

QuantumChaos 12y ago
I think the vitriol arises from the stranglehold progressives have on the use of "science" in public discourse. The only allow "science" to be used is used to demonstrate that women are in some sense more oppressed or less fortunate than men, or that women are more capable or good than men. There is a double standard when it comes to evidence and argumentation. In one direction, it is ok to use "science" and even "biology". In the other, it is only ok to use sociology or feminist theory.

dubfan 12y ago

> That fact is a very controversial _opinion_ that is on the way out of mainstream thought. Certainly, it isn't a fact in the "tested and proven" sense of the word. Did you read the article he linked? These differences have been demonstrated in independent studies. And contrary to what you might read on Tumblr, the knowledge that there are observable differences between boys and girls is still very much in the mainstream.

Spooky23 12y ago

With all due respect, I suggest you take a minute and read what I said instead of what you're filtering. I assume that you're deeming "Girls sweat the details" as a dismissive statement. It is not. Middle school girls demand perfection among peers. I remember vividly the hell my sister went through when she did something with her eyebrows that didn't pass muster. One circle of people she was essentially forced to spend time with basically ostracized her. Anecdotal? Yes. But that isn't an atypical story.

davorak 12y ago
Your first comment: > Guys are less subtle -- we're wired to be more attracted to the binary good/bad aspect of things. The male power dynamic is powerful/weak. Girls sweat the details. You clarify latter you are "offering an observation & opinion on a topic of controversy." but there was no way to tell that from the original comment. A reasonable number of people would read your first comment as a strong held believe perhaps even nearing towards stated as fact. In some the perceived strength of this statement would help them reaffirm their similar believes through the a bandwagon like effect. Conscience or otherwise, to counter act this effect many seem to respond with counteracting strong statement. > I assume that you're deeming "Girls sweat the details" as a dismissive statement. I would think it is more likely the "wired" part of your statement which many would interrupt as meaning genetically or inherently and elimianting/diminishing the involvement of social/cultural momentum.
- Spooky23 12y ago
  I would again say that you can think whatever you want, but don't accuse and label me as something that I am not because I disagree with you. Again to address that particular issue, there is expert opinion supporting that boys are in fact wired differently: http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/aggression.html http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/aggression.html From the article: Jane Katch, author of Under Deadman's Skin: Discovering the Meaning of Children's Violent Play. "And that's a problem for a lot of boys. Some boys in my class need to move a lot. I call them 'high energy boys.' These boys simply can't sit still as long as most of the girls. They don't have the fine motor skills girls do, so many will make big constructions like block towers, while girls will work on smaller, more delicate pictures."