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Is Australia interested in prosecuting him? I doubt that. Treason is a crime against one's own country; the US cannot try him for treason, nor can Sweden. Let

Is Australia interested in prosecuting him? I doubt that. Treason is a crime against one's own country; the US cannot try him for treason, nor can Sweden. Let's not exaggerate here.

tptacek 12y ago
Actually, while you're right in spirit, I think you're technically wrong: you do not need to be a citizen of the US to be charged with treason. You just need to have betrayed an allegiance to the US. So for instance, resident aliens in the US can technically be charged with treason.
- deciplex 12y ago
  This is an interesting discussion but ultimately meaningless. You need not be charged with or convicted of anything for US authorities to decide to lock you up indefinitely and to deny habeas corpus, forever. There is absolutely no expectation of due process of law in the US.
  - rogerhoward 12y ago
    There is quite a bit of expectation of due process in general; the exceptions are notable because, well, they are exceptions. I'll grant the case of Guantanamo prisoners as heinous violations of the rule of law, but I consider it a huge stretch to suggest that Assange would - if extradited to the US - face either treason charges (for reasons already discussed) or indefinite detention without due process. Whatever you may think of the US policies of indefinite detention, he doesn't fit the profile for those who would qualify. He would, no doubt, be given a lengthy federal trial, likely found guilty and serve Federal prison time, while receiving moral and legal aid from many corners, particularly organizations concerned with civil rights, whistleblowing, and journalism. His conviction might even be eventually overturned. Indefinite detention works (in that it has not been stopped) because those who are imprisoned without due process have few mainstream defenders - plenty of people object to the methods, but are ho-hum on the actual people involved. Assange's detention without due process would be a political nightmare for the administration at very least.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      Indefinite detention "works" because it's structurally the same process as is used for prisoners of war, and we (in one of the great foreign policy blunders of the century) managed to declare war on a terrorist brand name instead of a state, meaning that we've created a military conflict that won't end --- where the conclusion of a conflict, usually (in the last 2 centuries) within single-digit years, is the normal way you resolve prisoner of war dilemmas. Not that I'd want to suggest that a discussion that starts out with "that's interesting but it doesn't matter because there's no such thing as due process in the US" is going to be productive, but the nature of indefinite detention is, in a positive sense, not a normative one, interesting.
      - deciplex 12y ago
        >Not that I'd want to suggest that a discussion that starts out with "that's interesting but it doesn't matter because there's no such thing as due process in the US" is going to be productive I have found that most discussions you take part in are not terribly productive in the first place - though they never lack for postcount, so I'm not going to be too hard on myself here. That said, I didn't say there was no such thing as due process in the US, so your summary of my post misses the mark. I believe Assange should not have any expectation of due process, and that his treatment by US authorities, while perhaps not as brutal as that of prisoners in Guantanamo, would not be considered fair. Nevertheless I found rogerhoward's response interesting, making - for me at least - the signal-to-noise ratio temporarily high enough that my previous post was worth it. But, now here we are. In the future, maybe if you don't find a line of discussion productive, you can try not posting.
        tptacek 12y ago
        You write as if your original comment wasn't right there for everyone else to read. Also, you write without addressing anything in the comment to which you're replying.
        deciplex 12y ago
bitJericho 12y ago
Well this is if he were to be deported, which, let's face it, would be likely if he's found guilty.
- tptacek 12y ago
  It is easier to extradite Assange from the UK than from Sweden. But extraditing him to the US does not somehow make him culpable for treason; he has no formal connection to the US.

Is Australia interested in prosecuting him? I doubt that. Treason is a crime against one's own country; the US cannot try him for treason, nor can Sweden. Let's not exaggerate here.

tptacek 12y ago

Actually, while you're right in spirit, I think you're technically wrong: you do not need to be a citizen of the US to be charged with treason. You just need to have betrayed an allegiance to the US. So for instance, resident aliens in the US can technically be charged with treason.

deciplex 12y ago
This is an interesting discussion but ultimately meaningless. You need not be charged with or convicted of anything for US authorities to decide to lock you up indefinitely and to deny habeas corpus, forever. There is absolutely no expectation of due process of law in the US.
- rogerhoward 12y ago
  There is quite a bit of expectation of due process in general; the exceptions are notable because, well, they are exceptions. I'll grant the case of Guantanamo prisoners as heinous violations of the rule of law, but I consider it a huge stretch to suggest that Assange would - if extradited to the US - face either treason charges (for reasons already discussed) or indefinite detention without due process. Whatever you may think of the US policies of indefinite detention, he doesn't fit the profile for those who would qualify. He would, no doubt, be given a lengthy federal trial, likely found guilty and serve Federal prison time, while receiving moral and legal aid from many corners, particularly organizations concerned with civil rights, whistleblowing, and journalism. His conviction might even be eventually overturned. Indefinite detention works (in that it has not been stopped) because those who are imprisoned without due process have few mainstream defenders - plenty of people object to the methods, but are ho-hum on the actual people involved. Assange's detention without due process would be a political nightmare for the administration at very least.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Indefinite detention "works" because it's structurally the same process as is used for prisoners of war, and we (in one of the great foreign policy blunders of the century) managed to declare war on a terrorist brand name instead of a state, meaning that we've created a military conflict that won't end --- where the conclusion of a conflict, usually (in the last 2 centuries) within single-digit years, is the normal way you resolve prisoner of war dilemmas. Not that I'd want to suggest that a discussion that starts out with "that's interesting but it doesn't matter because there's no such thing as due process in the US" is going to be productive, but the nature of indefinite detention is, in a positive sense, not a normative one, interesting.
    - deciplex 12y ago
      >Not that I'd want to suggest that a discussion that starts out with "that's interesting but it doesn't matter because there's no such thing as due process in the US" is going to be productive I have found that most discussions you take part in are not terribly productive in the first place - though they never lack for postcount, so I'm not going to be too hard on myself here. That said, I didn't say there was no such thing as due process in the US, so your summary of my post misses the mark. I believe Assange should not have any expectation of due process, and that his treatment by US authorities, while perhaps not as brutal as that of prisoners in Guantanamo, would not be considered fair. Nevertheless I found rogerhoward's response interesting, making - for me at least - the signal-to-noise ratio temporarily high enough that my previous post was worth it. But, now here we are. In the future, maybe if you don't find a line of discussion productive, you can try not posting.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        You write as if your original comment wasn't right there for everyone else to read. Also, you write without addressing anything in the comment to which you're replying.
        deciplex 12y ago

bitJericho 12y ago

Well this is if he were to be deported, which, let's face it, would be likely if he's found guilty.

tptacek 12y ago
It is easier to extradite Assange from the UK than from Sweden. But extraditing him to the US does not somehow make him culpable for treason; he has no formal connection to the US.