4 ms·

Ballsy and classy. It's also perhaps a bit manipulative. I'm not in any way saying this in a critical or dismissive fashion, but rather given that many here ar

by personZ 12y ago

Ballsy and classy. It's also perhaps a bit manipulative. I'm not in any way saying this in a critical or dismissive fashion, but rather given that many here are learning from software like this, and I do think there is a lesson to be drawn from that. Persuasion and social norms are powerful forces. Giving direct links to your competitors not only demonstrates confidence in your product (e.g. it must be better given that it confidently points you at alternatives), it can also diffuse criticism, ala "if you aren't happy, here are other options that might make you happy". Recall that reviled Comcast phone call the other day -- the agent was using a tactic as old as time which is to make the caller feel unreasonable and unfair about cancelling (e.g. "until you've given me a good reason", and then a list of why they're better). Such a competitor link list may achieve the same goal for negative reviews/sentiments. App looks great. EDIT: Pretty extraordinary how literally (and simplistically) people take the Comcast comparison. I was describing persuasive techniques (of which our society is filled), not saying that Marco is equal to Comcast. It is deeply unfortunate that this needs to be spelled out. It is also shocking how people are both going forth to fight any notion that this is anything but a purely selfless move wrought by good intentions, but because of such a selfless move wrought with good intentions isn't Marco a great guy (and so "ballsy and classy") and isn't it worthwhile to spend $4.99. I am not sure if the reality is lost, or the fan club has flocked in. /r/hailcorporate

runjake 12y ago
You're comparing this "tactic" to that Comcast fiasco? If you listen to any of Marco's podcasts, he feels really strongly about independent developers and even his independent competitors, who he compliments often (esp. the Pocket Casts and Downcast people).
- personZ 12y ago
  Yes, I'm comparing persuasive tactics. Is there some reason I shouldn't? The notion that anyone would read my comment and think they have to defend Marco or silence an obvious, factual comment is rather sad.
  - gress 12y ago
    Your comment is not factual. It's a cynical opinion. Does Marco hope that this will make you feel good about him and his app? That seems likely. Does he also want to support independent developers? That seems likely too. Not everything can be simply boiled down to 'persuasive tactics'.
    - personZ 12y ago
      You say my comment is not factual, only then you describe his motivations being precisely what I described (rather than "ballsy and classy"). Not sure if you're being ironic or just shockingly naive. The facts, gress, are persuasive techniques, not Marco's intentions which neither of us can measure. I made this abundantly clear in my OP, however the desperate, sad dogpile of waylaid Arment defenders ("OMG! HE SAID THAT ARMENT IS LITERALY COMCAST!") made that a little too difficult for some of you to read. There is nothing dishonest in my edits. I have clarified my point (which has remained exactly the same, regardless of your comprehension issues) without providing yet another post for Arment cheerleaders to pummel down in their confusion about what is being discussed. Hacker News is not conducive to conversations when a side (even when "a side" is as bizarre and perplexing as "refutes basic persuasion techniques") is passionate, as evidenced by the fact that the same boorish people feel some perverse need to arrow up/arrow down through an entire already-transparent conversation, force-multiplying their input. It is HN's greatest weakness.
      - gress 12y ago
        Are you claiming your comment is factual or not? I'm stating an opinion. Not facts. You seem to claim some kind of higher authority, and I'm calling you out for that. [edit: I see that rather than replying, you have dishonestly edited your comment to distort your position and make this followup look out of place. I guess this is not a conversation.]
huu 12y ago
While I think, in general, a move like this can be seen as manipulative, I think this particular case is an exception. Specifically, the line "Support independent developers, such as:", endears me to the publisher's genuine intentions. "Support" is the operative word here, and I think the comparison between this and the Comcast ordeal is different because I can't imagine Comcast using those words to describe their competitors. I don't think what the publisher is doing diffuses criticism. I think it anticipates it and wraps it under a notion of "I know I can't give you everything you could want in a podcast app, so try these ones instead if you want". To me that's very different from, "This is the best podcast app, these other competitors can't possibly give you what I give you."
agmcleod 12y ago
While i agree on your edit about comcast, you chose a really poor company to relate it to, given all the FCC stuff as of late.
lostlogin 12y ago
You appear to have been mentioned in the show Marco co-hosts. ATP episode 74 at the 1hr 30min mark.

by personZ 12y ago

runjake 12y ago

You're comparing this "tactic" to that Comcast fiasco? If you listen to any of Marco's podcasts, he feels really strongly about independent developers and even his independent competitors, who he compliments often (esp. the Pocket Casts and Downcast people).

personZ 12y ago
Yes, I'm comparing persuasive tactics. Is there some reason I shouldn't? The notion that anyone would read my comment and think they have to defend Marco or silence an obvious, factual comment is rather sad.
- gress 12y ago
  Your comment is not factual. It's a cynical opinion. Does Marco hope that this will make you feel good about him and his app? That seems likely. Does he also want to support independent developers? That seems likely too. Not everything can be simply boiled down to 'persuasive tactics'.
  - personZ 12y ago
    You say my comment is not factual, only then you describe his motivations being precisely what I described (rather than "ballsy and classy"). Not sure if you're being ironic or just shockingly naive. The facts, gress, are persuasive techniques, not Marco's intentions which neither of us can measure. I made this abundantly clear in my OP, however the desperate, sad dogpile of waylaid Arment defenders ("OMG! HE SAID THAT ARMENT IS LITERALY COMCAST!") made that a little too difficult for some of you to read. There is nothing dishonest in my edits. I have clarified my point (which has remained exactly the same, regardless of your comprehension issues) without providing yet another post for Arment cheerleaders to pummel down in their confusion about what is being discussed. Hacker News is not conducive to conversations when a side (even when "a side" is as bizarre and perplexing as "refutes basic persuasion techniques") is passionate, as evidenced by the fact that the same boorish people feel some perverse need to arrow up/arrow down through an entire already-transparent conversation, force-multiplying their input. It is HN's greatest weakness.
    - gress 12y ago
      Are you claiming your comment is factual or not? I'm stating an opinion. Not facts. You seem to claim some kind of higher authority, and I'm calling you out for that. [edit: I see that rather than replying, you have dishonestly edited your comment to distort your position and make this followup look out of place. I guess this is not a conversation.]

huu 12y ago

While I think, in general, a move like this can be seen as manipulative, I think this particular case is an exception. Specifically, the line "Support independent developers, such as:", endears me to the publisher's genuine intentions. "Support" is the operative word here, and I think the comparison between this and the Comcast ordeal is different because I can't imagine Comcast using those words to describe their competitors. I don't think what the publisher is doing diffuses criticism. I think it anticipates it and wraps it under a notion of "I know I can't give you everything you could want in a podcast app, so try these ones instead if you want". To me that's very different from, "This is the best podcast app, these other competitors can't possibly give you what I give you."

agmcleod 12y ago

While i agree on your edit about comcast, you chose a really poor company to relate it to, given all the FCC stuff as of late.

lostlogin 12y ago

You appear to have been mentioned in the show Marco co-hosts. ATP episode 74 at the 1hr 30min mark.