5 ms·

Hate to break it to you, but most professional programmers have no deep knowledge of: * runtime systems * detailed memory management * algorithmic complexity

by Argorak 12y ago

Hate to break it to you, but most professional programmers have no deep knowledge of: * runtime systems * detailed memory management * algorithmic complexity Yet, quite a lot of those build parts of huge systems that work and meet business requirements all the time, which makes them very desirable professionals. Being able to competently benchmark is a fringe skill.

coldtea 12y ago
Sure -- but I'd call them "employed programmers" (as opposed to "professional"). In any case, I don't think Rust's target group doesn't know about runtime systems, detailed memory management and algorithmic complexity. After all it's mostly if you care about all three that you'll consider Rust.
- Argorak 12y ago
  "professionals" are, by definition, people that are employed in a profession.
  - bad_user 12y ago
    Sorry, downvoted you by mistake. Wanted to upvote, because yes, that's the definition of "professional", contrary to an "amateur" which is somebody engaged in a certain activity without monetary compensation (for the love of it only).
  - coldtea 12y ago
    Sorry, but "by definition" there are several meanings in the dictionary. Merely employed is the lower level. And I think I made the way I mean it clear. E.g From dictionary.reference.com: noun: - a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional. - a person who engages in an activity with great competence adj: - extremely competent in a job, etc - (of a piece of work or anything performed) produced with competence or skill
    - Argorak 12y ago
      Yes, and I think I also made clear that I don't accept you using solely that definition to discredit and downplay achievements of people not concentrated on a fringe of things. Your comment is the elitist as hell. For example, someone writing a huge distributed video processing system rarely needs to consider any of these topics. Because everything needed in that range is built. Making sure that the data is at the right place at the right time and predicting that needs none of the skill given by you. Is that person not a professional?
      - coldtea 12y ago
        >Your comment is the elitist as hell. Sorry? Expecting professional programmers to be familiar with "runtime systems, detailed memory management and algorithmic complexity" is "elitist as hell"? That's one of the reasons the industry is lead by charlatans pushing the latest fad, doesn't know it's own history, and has built pile upon pile of cruft. >For example, someone writing a huge distributed video processing system rarely needs to consider any of these topics. Because everything needed in that range is built. Blind reliance upon things build by others, the characteristics of which one building the "video processing system" you describe is not able to assess, and is not able to modify to suit the project's specific needs. That we accept that is a lowering of the profession. It's like doctors deciding it's no need to know pathology and anatomy anymore, because there are expert systems they can use.

by Argorak 12y ago

coldtea 12y ago

Sure -- but I'd call them "employed programmers" (as opposed to "professional"). In any case, I don't think Rust's target group doesn't know about runtime systems, detailed memory management and algorithmic complexity. After all it's mostly if you care about all three that you'll consider Rust.

Argorak 12y ago
"professionals" are, by definition, people that are employed in a profession.
- bad_user 12y ago
  Sorry, downvoted you by mistake. Wanted to upvote, because yes, that's the definition of "professional", contrary to an "amateur" which is somebody engaged in a certain activity without monetary compensation (for the love of it only).
- coldtea 12y ago
  Sorry, but "by definition" there are several meanings in the dictionary. Merely employed is the lower level. And I think I made the way I mean it clear. E.g From dictionary.reference.com: noun: - a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional. - a person who engages in an activity with great competence adj: - extremely competent in a job, etc - (of a piece of work or anything performed) produced with competence or skill
  - Argorak 12y ago
    Yes, and I think I also made clear that I don't accept you using solely that definition to discredit and downplay achievements of people not concentrated on a fringe of things. Your comment is the elitist as hell. For example, someone writing a huge distributed video processing system rarely needs to consider any of these topics. Because everything needed in that range is built. Making sure that the data is at the right place at the right time and predicting that needs none of the skill given by you. Is that person not a professional?
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >Your comment is the elitist as hell. Sorry? Expecting professional programmers to be familiar with "runtime systems, detailed memory management and algorithmic complexity" is "elitist as hell"? That's one of the reasons the industry is lead by charlatans pushing the latest fad, doesn't know it's own history, and has built pile upon pile of cruft. >For example, someone writing a huge distributed video processing system rarely needs to consider any of these topics. Because everything needed in that range is built. Blind reliance upon things build by others, the characteristics of which one building the "video processing system" you describe is not able to assess, and is not able to modify to suit the project's specific needs. That we accept that is a lowering of the profession. It's like doctors deciding it's no need to know pathology and anatomy anymore, because there are expert systems they can use.