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Can't he do a chargeback on his credit card for the bill and then send the credit card folks a recording of this? Gyms are typically known for making it extrem

Can't he do a chargeback on his credit card for the bill and then send the credit card folks a recording of this? Gyms are typically known for making it extremely hard to cancel, like requiring you to snail mail a notice and even then acting as if they never got it.

scrabble 12y ago
I did a stop payment on a gym years ago and they never contacted me, so that seemed to take care of it. They had refused to cancel me just through talking to them so I felt vindicated. My wife just recently canceled a gym membership, and actually got no hassle. No written letter needed, nothing. Just a comment about how they were sorry she was leaving and hope to see you again one day. It was perfect customer service.
- Kliment 12y ago
  Would you be okay with naming and shaming the evil gym and/or at least naming the nonevil gym?
  - scrabble 12y ago
    Non-evil gym was Goodlife Fitness, which is everywhere in Canada. They used to be a hassle to leave, but doesn't seem to be the case any more.
personZ 12y ago
Chargebacks are no different than simply ceasing to send in payments for a service: It sounds pat, but can haunt you years later when massive penalties and interest appear on your credit report.
- chatmasta 12y ago
  Source please? Every time I've filed a chargeback on my credit card (American Express), they have been completely transparent with the status of it. When I submit the chargeback, I'm credited the amount of it. If I lose it, I also lose that credit, and I owe the amount of the chargeback. Are you saying that comcast will negatively affect your credit score because you submit a chargeback to them after they failed to cancel your service?
  - personZ 12y ago
    Your credit card company is not an arbiter of contracts. They are nothing more than a payment method, and the only reason they have any process whatsoever is to try to maintain relations with the vendors who they also deal with. If you have a contract with a vendor, decide that you don't like the product any more and decide to cancel through a chargeback, that has literally zero influence on the status of the contract with the vendor. You've simply failed to make a payment. Whether the credit card company likes your recording or not is irrelevant. So those vendors, which in this case is Comcast, can absolutely destroy your credit rating in such a case. I mention this because invariably when payment disputes come up, someone says to just do a chargeback, yet this is no different than simply deciding to stop paying for something.
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      I'd always figured that one of the conditions of being able to accept a particular type of card was accepting their judgement in chargeback situations. Huh. This recording would make a pretty effective "I dispute the debt" piece of evidence, regardless.
      - mcherm 12y ago
        But evidence doesn't matter! Really! If Comcast sues you for payment then you go to court (or more likely to an arbiter chosen by Comcast since that's what you agreed to in your contract) where evidence matters. But instead of that, Comcast simply reports you to the credit bureaus for non-payment. The law gives them immunity for doing so -- even if they submitted intentionally false information for malicious reasons, you can't sue them for libel. And you credit score affects your ability to function in US society: it is used for all granting of credit, for deciding whether to allow you to open a checking account, for deciding whether to hire you at a job -- it is so significant that you are forced to care. You can open a dispute of facts with the credit reporting agencies, but be prepared to spend large amounts of time doing so.
  - nathanm412 12y ago
    Yes, they'll send you to collections. The collections company will take their word that the debt is valid and try to contact you. Until you pay them, they will report the debt on your credit. If you manage to convince them the debt is invalid, you will still have to separately convince all three credit agencies to remove the listing. Comcast's large bureaucratic collections department will just send you to a different collections agency until you pay up. You can then get a lawyer to stop them, but comcast won't just back down. They'll reply to the lawsuit until a judgement is given. This will cost thousands of dollars to complete. The other alternative is to play their game with their customer service and get them to agree to properly cancel the service.
- indymike 12y ago
  No, stopping payments is the same as ceasing to send in payments. The chargeback is a contractual dispute resolution process. The consumer says they shouldn't have to pay for a valid reason. The merchant gets to provide evidence otherwise. A decision is made and both parties have agreed in advance (via the merchant agreement and cardholder agreements) to be bound by that decision. This is one of the consumer protections that make using plastic safer than using cash/checks.
  - personZ 12y ago
    Outside of the vendor's relationship with the credit card company, a chargeback is identical to ceasing payment. The credit card company has zero control or influence over contract disputes. At best they can threaten a vendor relationship for disregarding their arbitration (which vendors will do simply because they have to pay somewhere in the range of $700 to pursue), but they won't and don't do that. So you can find stories by the thousands of people who won a chargeback, and then were hounded by collections and ruined credit. Because Visa and Mastercard don't overrule contract law. Credit cards are safer/more powerful simply because money is influencing, and he who controls the money controls the relationship. They don't override contract law, however.
kstrauser 12y ago
Chargeback? First lesson in dealing with known-awful companies: don't ever let them set you up on automatic payments. Even if they make it convenient. Even if they discount your bill a couple of dollars. It's much easier to cancel service or dispute a bill when they don't have the ability to pull money out of your checking account without your explicit monthly approval.

scrabble 12y ago

I did a stop payment on a gym years ago and they never contacted me, so that seemed to take care of it. They had refused to cancel me just through talking to them so I felt vindicated. My wife just recently canceled a gym membership, and actually got no hassle. No written letter needed, nothing. Just a comment about how they were sorry she was leaving and hope to see you again one day. It was perfect customer service.

Kliment 12y ago
Would you be okay with naming and shaming the evil gym and/or at least naming the nonevil gym?
- scrabble 12y ago
  Non-evil gym was Goodlife Fitness, which is everywhere in Canada. They used to be a hassle to leave, but doesn't seem to be the case any more.

personZ 12y ago

Chargebacks are no different than simply ceasing to send in payments for a service: It sounds pat, but can haunt you years later when massive penalties and interest appear on your credit report.

chatmasta 12y ago
Source please? Every time I've filed a chargeback on my credit card (American Express), they have been completely transparent with the status of it. When I submit the chargeback, I'm credited the amount of it. If I lose it, I also lose that credit, and I owe the amount of the chargeback. Are you saying that comcast will negatively affect your credit score because you submit a chargeback to them after they failed to cancel your service?
- personZ 12y ago
  Your credit card company is not an arbiter of contracts. They are nothing more than a payment method, and the only reason they have any process whatsoever is to try to maintain relations with the vendors who they also deal with. If you have a contract with a vendor, decide that you don't like the product any more and decide to cancel through a chargeback, that has literally zero influence on the status of the contract with the vendor. You've simply failed to make a payment. Whether the credit card company likes your recording or not is irrelevant. So those vendors, which in this case is Comcast, can absolutely destroy your credit rating in such a case. I mention this because invariably when payment disputes come up, someone says to just do a chargeback, yet this is no different than simply deciding to stop paying for something.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    I'd always figured that one of the conditions of being able to accept a particular type of card was accepting their judgement in chargeback situations. Huh. This recording would make a pretty effective "I dispute the debt" piece of evidence, regardless.
    - mcherm 12y ago
      But evidence doesn't matter! Really! If Comcast sues you for payment then you go to court (or more likely to an arbiter chosen by Comcast since that's what you agreed to in your contract) where evidence matters. But instead of that, Comcast simply reports you to the credit bureaus for non-payment. The law gives them immunity for doing so -- even if they submitted intentionally false information for malicious reasons, you can't sue them for libel. And you credit score affects your ability to function in US society: it is used for all granting of credit, for deciding whether to allow you to open a checking account, for deciding whether to hire you at a job -- it is so significant that you are forced to care. You can open a dispute of facts with the credit reporting agencies, but be prepared to spend large amounts of time doing so.
- nathanm412 12y ago
  Yes, they'll send you to collections. The collections company will take their word that the debt is valid and try to contact you. Until you pay them, they will report the debt on your credit. If you manage to convince them the debt is invalid, you will still have to separately convince all three credit agencies to remove the listing. Comcast's large bureaucratic collections department will just send you to a different collections agency until you pay up. You can then get a lawyer to stop them, but comcast won't just back down. They'll reply to the lawsuit until a judgement is given. This will cost thousands of dollars to complete. The other alternative is to play their game with their customer service and get them to agree to properly cancel the service.
indymike 12y ago
No, stopping payments is the same as ceasing to send in payments. The chargeback is a contractual dispute resolution process. The consumer says they shouldn't have to pay for a valid reason. The merchant gets to provide evidence otherwise. A decision is made and both parties have agreed in advance (via the merchant agreement and cardholder agreements) to be bound by that decision. This is one of the consumer protections that make using plastic safer than using cash/checks.
- personZ 12y ago
  Outside of the vendor's relationship with the credit card company, a chargeback is identical to ceasing payment. The credit card company has zero control or influence over contract disputes. At best they can threaten a vendor relationship for disregarding their arbitration (which vendors will do simply because they have to pay somewhere in the range of $700 to pursue), but they won't and don't do that. So you can find stories by the thousands of people who won a chargeback, and then were hounded by collections and ruined credit. Because Visa and Mastercard don't overrule contract law. Credit cards are safer/more powerful simply because money is influencing, and he who controls the money controls the relationship. They don't override contract law, however.

kstrauser 12y ago

Chargeback? First lesson in dealing with known-awful companies: don't ever let them set you up on automatic payments. Even if they make it convenient. Even if they discount your bill a couple of dollars. It's much easier to cancel service or dispute a bill when they don't have the ability to pull money out of your checking account without your explicit monthly approval.