5 ms·

Very few folks in the industry want to hire a PhD because they are a) expensive b) often know-it-alls with little practical experience churning out boilerplate

Very few folks in the industry want to hire a PhD because they are a) expensive b) often know-it-alls with little practical experience churning out boilerplate code which is the majority of positions. Now, you can hate on my comment without realizing that I respect the work and knowledge represented by such an achievement, but this is just real-talk from 15 years in the trenches. I have no college degree and am probably more marketable simply due to my wide experience in various industries and projects. That is sad but true and maybe indicative of the funked up system we inhabit.

dm2 12y ago
Everything you said is very true from what I've seen. I would suggest against a PhD in CS right now unless you know exactly where you want to work and that they require that kind of degree, or if you want to be a teacher then a PhD is very valuable. I need stuff that works and fast, not to re-invent the wheel by using outdated techniques your professors taught you. A masters degree is probably the best higher education in this field. For programming it's all about ability, work-ethic, and long term relationships with the company, because you are an investment as an employee. I do consulting and have never had anyone ask me about a degree (I have a degree in a completely unrelated field), I don't even give out a resume and would not hesitate to tell a potential client to piss off just because of the huge amount of work available for someone who can create value for a company.
- aortega 12y ago
  >I need stuff that works and fast, not to re-invent the wheel by using outdated techniques your professors taught you. It seems you have a very wrong idea of what PhD training is. It isn't about any outdated techniques, unless you call science outdated. PhDs is about doing research and writing scientific articles and presentations documenting that research. Everything else is a side effect.
  - nickonline 12y ago
    Except you've been studying this very narrow topic for 6 years and spending all your time on it. Any technique you're using is most likely very specialised to that topic or something you learnt in either masters or undergrad. Whereas someone in the industry has been developing their generalist skills and keeping up with current technology.
    - Chronic29 12y ago
      And the moment the self-taught data scientist's model is not working due to a hidden conditional dependence causing overfitting, you will have wished you had a CS PhD instead of someone with MS to help since your ads are now generating less revenue. Everything in the above paragraph is why companies, both large and small, will prefer PhDs over the software engineer (for certain problems).
    - xerophtye 12y ago
      I don't really think working in the industry makes you a generalist. If you have been working on the same product for a couple of years, your experience is limited mostly to that field, that technology, that problem etc. Of course, the benefit of not being in a PhD program is that you are free to hop around and work on a different thing every year.
    - sheepmullet 12y ago
      "Except you've been studying this very narrow topic for 6 years and spending all your time on it. Any technique you're using is most likely very specialised to that topic or something you learnt in either masters or undergrad. Whereas someone in the industry has been developing their generalist skills and keeping up with current technology." True. Although if you can complete a phd at Stanford you almost certainly have the ability and drive to get to senior developer level within a year or two in industry. But when it comes down to it most companies don't hire for who you will be or who you can become but for your current skills and abilities. Which is ok, but don't then turn around and complain about a skills shortage. And don't complain that employees have very little loyalty. And don't complain when you have to pay $150-$300/hr for experienced developers with expertise in your specific stack.
    - 12y ago

dm2 12y ago

Everything you said is very true from what I've seen. I would suggest against a PhD in CS right now unless you know exactly where you want to work and that they require that kind of degree, or if you want to be a teacher then a PhD is very valuable. I need stuff that works and fast, not to re-invent the wheel by using outdated techniques your professors taught you. A masters degree is probably the best higher education in this field. For programming it's all about ability, work-ethic, and long term relationships with the company, because you are an investment as an employee. I do consulting and have never had anyone ask me about a degree (I have a degree in a completely unrelated field), I don't even give out a resume and would not hesitate to tell a potential client to piss off just because of the huge amount of work available for someone who can create value for a company.

aortega 12y ago
>I need stuff that works and fast, not to re-invent the wheel by using outdated techniques your professors taught you. It seems you have a very wrong idea of what PhD training is. It isn't about any outdated techniques, unless you call science outdated. PhDs is about doing research and writing scientific articles and presentations documenting that research. Everything else is a side effect.
- nickonline 12y ago
  Except you've been studying this very narrow topic for 6 years and spending all your time on it. Any technique you're using is most likely very specialised to that topic or something you learnt in either masters or undergrad. Whereas someone in the industry has been developing their generalist skills and keeping up with current technology.
  - Chronic29 12y ago
    And the moment the self-taught data scientist's model is not working due to a hidden conditional dependence causing overfitting, you will have wished you had a CS PhD instead of someone with MS to help since your ads are now generating less revenue. Everything in the above paragraph is why companies, both large and small, will prefer PhDs over the software engineer (for certain problems).
  - xerophtye 12y ago
    I don't really think working in the industry makes you a generalist. If you have been working on the same product for a couple of years, your experience is limited mostly to that field, that technology, that problem etc. Of course, the benefit of not being in a PhD program is that you are free to hop around and work on a different thing every year.
  - sheepmullet 12y ago
    "Except you've been studying this very narrow topic for 6 years and spending all your time on it. Any technique you're using is most likely very specialised to that topic or something you learnt in either masters or undergrad. Whereas someone in the industry has been developing their generalist skills and keeping up with current technology." True. Although if you can complete a phd at Stanford you almost certainly have the ability and drive to get to senior developer level within a year or two in industry. But when it comes down to it most companies don't hire for who you will be or who you can become but for your current skills and abilities. Which is ok, but don't then turn around and complain about a skills shortage. And don't complain that employees have very little loyalty. And don't complain when you have to pay $150-$300/hr for experienced developers with expertise in your specific stack.
  - 12y ago