10 ms·
Sweden's Six-Hour Workday Experiment Officially Kicks Off Tomorrow
- funkyy 12y agoI just hope that no matter the results they will publish report that will be accessible. I hate when interesting experiment starts and then if it fails researches do not release reports and reasons it failed.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- fekberg 12y agoHighly doubt it will go unnoticed since it's election year. Hopefully the media will be all over it no matter what.
- fragsworth 12y agoIt would be nice to be able to "follow" news related to this story, and more generally any story that will have a future outcome that you want to hear about when it happens. As far as I can tell, there is no easy way to do this. Is there?
- spacehome 12y agoGoogle Alerts is a decent solution to that problem.
- fekberg 12y agoNice until it's shut down like every other awesome service.. Joking aside, there are tons of solutions that monitor website changes and it's a good way to monitor news!
- olefoo 12y agohttp://cir.ca/ http://cir.ca/ tries to solve that. Although they are hobbled by their insistence on being a "mobile-first" play. It does a decent job of pushing updates to news stories. I do wish they'd set their website up so you could actually follow the stream of stories they post rather than relying on their twitter account to post the links.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- coldtea 12y agoAs opposed to parties like the republicans?
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago>Social and green parties hide their failures well. That's not polite.
- CapitalistCartr 12y agoIt may be polite or not (I'm a poor judge of that) but more important, its inaccurate. There is no correlation between political position of a party and skill at sweeping their dirt under the carpet.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- im3w1l 12y agoWhy do you believe there is no such correlation in Sweden?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- fnordfnordfnord 12y agoYour posts are getting downvoted because they are inflammatory and partisan.
- jinushaun 12y ago6 hrs? Man, that sounds horrible. I'd never get anything done. I'd rather have 4-10s. And extra two hours of maker time to offset all the bullshit meetings, plus a real weekend.
- toomuchtodo 12y agoWouldn't it be 4 8's? Why are we constrained to requiring 40 hours/week when productivity has skyrocketed over the last 30 years? Hours/week should be indexed to a productivity index, just as entitlements are indexed to inflation/CPI.
- n09n 12y agoA lot of people like the feeling of progression. If, whenever I improve somewhere, I have to cut back elsewhere to keep myself at the same overall level of productivity, that just feels bad. I'd rather just get more work done and get a raise.
- eckzow 12y agoI don't think the your parent was talking on an individual level, but a more macroeconomic level where this appears to not be happening[1]. [1] http://www.winningwordsproject.com/assets/pages/340/productivityvscompensation.png http://www.winningwordsproject.com/assets/pages/340/producti...
- toomuchtodo 12y agoCorrect. Thank you.
- n09n 12y agoIf it doesn't happen at the individual level, why should it happen at the systemic level?
- blakestein 12y agoI hope to find a job that will let me work this schedule some day. As long as those extra two hours were as if everyone else in the office had already left so I wouldn't be interrupted.
- stevewillows 12y agoIt will be interesting to see how Parkinson's law plays out.
- JohnDoe365 12y agoWhat do you mean by that? Sure, the law will hold true, but actually for the good.
- sliverstorm 12y agoI think your parent is wondering whether work will shrink to fit the time available.
- stevewillows 12y agolike Silverstorm said. It will be interesting to see if the same results can be achieved with less time available.
- m_eiman 12y agoI recently read that the start of the experiment had been postponed for a while because they hadn't managed to find a suitable researcher to follow it. Maybe they've found one now..?
- fekberg 12y agoIt's been delayed. Source: http://www.gp.se/nyheter/goteborg/1.2423446-sextimmarsdagar-skjuts-pa-framtiden http://www.gp.se/nyheter/goteborg/1.2423446-sextimmarsdagar-... Translated using Google Translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gp.se%2Fnyheter%2Fgoteborg%2F1.2423446-sextimmarsdagar-skjuts-pa-framtiden&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=y&prev...
- ripb 12y agoIt's interesting how every time this comes up we see Americans protesting how it's the wrong approach to take. It's ok guys, you're welcome to keep your third world working conditions, just don't expect the rest of the progressive world to.
- growupkids 12y agoIt has been tried before in Sweden, and it didn't work then either. It actually made workers sicker, and people were expected to do the same amount of work in less time.
- Pirate-of-SV 12y agoAre you thinking about the change from 10 to 8 hours? Because that change seems to have been quite successful all over the world. Regarding the 8 hour work day: “One of the first businesses to implement this was the Ford Motor Company, in 1914, which not only cut the standard work day to eight hours, but also doubled their worker’s pay in the process. To the shock of many industries, this resulted in Ford’s productivity off of these same workers, but with fewer hours, actually increasing significantly and Ford’s profit margins doubled within two years. This encouraged other companies to adopt the shorter, eight hour work day as a standard for their employees.” http://blog.bufferapp.com/optimal-work-time-how-long-should-we-work-every-day-the-science-of-mental-strength http://blog.bufferapp.com/optimal-work-time-how-long-should-...
- Kiro 12y agoNo, they tried 6 hour days in Kiruna with dismal results.
- Loughla 12y agoI've held several positions in America, from subsistence farmer to minimum wage retail flunky to upper management in higher education. I've also been to 3rd world countries in South America. None of the places I have worked were 3rd world working conditions including the subsistence farming (we had much nicer/safer machinery). Granted it's a small sample size, but still. Anyway. Stop with the hyperbole. It's an ineffective argument tool, it's insulting, and it shuts people off from debate.
- vasilipupkin 12y agoA large part of many employees' day is spent chatting to others in the office and browsing the web. My guess is compressing their day into 6 hrs will make them more stressed out because they won't be able to relax at the office
- mbrock 12y agoAre you sure this kind of web browsing is really relaxing? In my personal experience, office work involves a lot of pure time wasting, time I'd rather spend doing other things than browsing reddit in my cubicle: grocery shopping, being in the sun, exercising, reading, or anything else. At the Gothenburg office I worked in, literally everyone I talked to about a 6 hour work week saw it as extremely desirable. I didn't ask the manager, and she'd probably work more anyway, but I don't think she'd oppose it if it made employees happier.
- mcv 12y agoHalf the city gets to work two hours per day less, but the other half has to work the same hours as before? Sounds sucky for the people in the control group. Well, actually they get the same thing they always got, and if the experiment goes well, they may get more free time later, but some of their lucky co-workers get the extra free time right now.
- mempko 12y agoI have faced this attitude a lot in the US. "I suffer, so you must too!" It is sad really.
- MAGZine 12y agoThe other half is "I've got mine, so fuck you!"
- fnordfnordfnord 12y agoCrab mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
- anon4 12y agoAround here it's "it doesn't matter if I suffer, as long as my neighbour suffers more than I do". It's even a saying. The experiment seems ripe for gaming though - just have the control group gradually lose productivity (if needed) to be just below the test group, so it seems like 30hrs/week is definitely better than 40hrs/week. Assuming they're measuring productivity with some easy to game number, which I hope they aren't.
- mcv 12y agoYeah, gaming it seems unavoidable. It cannot be a blind study. You can't help but notice how many hours you work, don't you? You need a pretty long term experiment, so the 30 hour group gets the chance to settle in their new rhythm, and you need a control group that doesn't know they're the control group, presumably from a different city that happens to have very similar productivity.
- coldcode 12y agoSocial experiments in working are rare especially with control groups. It would be interesting to see what happens.
- mkesper 12y agos/would/will ?
- PerfectElement 12y agoI don't see how this can be a valid scientific experiment if the control group is aware of their colleagues working 2 hours less and getting the same salary. How can this not affect the results?
- belorn 12y agoI am much more concerned about the volatility of small sample size. Sickdays inside a single building can be easy effected by single individuals. Imagine if either the control or test work place has an employe who is carrier for the flue but with limited symptoms. Such event would invalidate the experiment if one is simply looking at the number of sick days for data points. At best, I think one should view this experiment as a preliminary test in order figure out how to do a real test with a larger sample size.
- boomzilla 12y agoNot just small sample size, it's also biased. FTA, "The year-long experiment will compare two factions of municipal workers." Obviously, the results would be very different for various professions. For people who just push papers, yes they can be 25% faster to get 2 hours more with their family. However, what happens with the service industry? If the bus drivers work 2 hours less, then there will surely be less busses on the road.
- cloverich 12y agoI feel like this is the case for most economics studies I've read (note: not nearly an expert). I enjoy the types of studies done and think they have value, but am concerned they can be taken as direct, strong supporting evidence when by their nature they make controlling for confounding variables impossible.
- logfromblammo 12y agoI think probably the only way to do it correctly is to divide the participants into two groups. In group A, they work 30 hour weeks for 3 months, then work 40 hour weeks for 3 months. In group B, they start with 40 hour weeks, then go to 30 hour weeks. You can't actually hide control/experiment status from the test subjects, though. You usually know if you are working more or fewer hours in a week. There is some danger that people will intentionally slack off while doing 40s and bust their ass while doing 30s, just so the experimental results suggest shorter work weeks. To counter that, you have a huge number of people following the protocol, and the researchers and participants simply don't know exactly whose data will be randomly selected for inclusion in the study.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- Shivetya 12y agoLet us be honest, if the same work can be accomplished in less time then it suggest less people are needed that are currently employed. The other issue here is that only in government could this suggestion float because they really don't have to show a profit, answer to share holders. Don't count to heavily on voters because if this does succeed; why wouldn't it when they set the criteria; they can market it so that anyone opposed is transformed into the guilty party. It is also can cynically be viewed as a means to raise employment because if the work goes unfinished with fewer hours then more people working those fewer hours will be needed
- marvy 12y agoThe point of the experiment is to see whether the work will get done faster.
- tabrischen 12y agoIt's interesting how society unanimously view 'work' as a concept that is undesirable and as something to be reduced. Is a society where where people are actually passionate about what they do and want to spend more time working because it increases their overall happiness too unrealistic to strive for?
- toomuchtodo 12y ago> Is a society where where people are actually passionate about what they do and want to spend more time working because it increases their overall happiness too unrealistic to strive for? Shouldn't it be? Aren't there jobs that should be automated? And if we automate all the jobs shouldn't we no longer have to "work"? Why work if you can provide resources without said work? People will still create. People will still pursue goals. What we call "work" will just become fuzzy. There is no point in work for work's sake.
- staz 12y agoIt's because you (not just you but the society in general) are mixing "wage work" and "work"
- tabrischen 12y agoWhy should there be an inherent different between the two?
- a-priori 12y agoThe belief that work is an intrinsic good is a variation of the Protestant work ethic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic). Even though only certain groups of Protestants (Quakers, Mennonites, etc.) believe in the original version of the ethic, that work is a route to religious salvation, weaker versions still persists in many places where Protestantism is or was common -- including much of North America. These weaker versions manifest as the idea that work is intrinsically good; or the reverse, that not working is intrinsically bad.
- sheepmullet 12y ago
- kleiba 12y agoI hope the people in the 30 hours work week are going to work their asses off during the 1-year trial.
- shitgoose 12y agoComparing municipal workers productivity? You are kidding me?:) 8hrs * 0.01 vs. 6hrs * 0.01? That will solve the world problems!
- chrisBob 12y agoFor those in the US that aren't aware: Swedish workers already get a lot more time off, and seem to value it as part of the culture. I am collaborating with a tech worker in Sweden and last week I got an email that ended with "I will be going for vacation starting from today and I will be back on August 11. Hopefully you will be busy enough with the material I send you until I’m back." I am jealous because in the US, a decent summer vacation seems reserved for students and teachers. I would much rather work somewhere that values free time instead of the current american culture which often honors the person who spends the most time in the office regardless of output.