7 ms·

Interactive scientific computing: Goldilocks languages

82 points by 3JPLW 12y ago

enupten 12y ago
Julia is an awesome language (and about time too!). For those of looking for a more lispy tool, checkout the version of Matlisp I'm writing: https://github.com/enupten/matlisp/wiki https://github.com/enupten/matlisp/wiki
agumonkey 12y ago
> PHP initially implemented its loops by fseek() in the source code. real #wtf ps: ltu discussion http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4990 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4990
- StefanKarpinski 12y ago
  I keep thinking about that tidbit and laughing.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That looks like someone took the 'everything is a file' unix mantra a little bit too far.
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    hyper late bound lazy streamed os cached interpreter pattern
- krapp 12y ago
  wait... how does that even work? Read the current file's source from the start of a block and eval() the text n times or something? That's just cheating.
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    Do you really wanna know ?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - pavel_lishin 12y ago
      Yes!
- thret 12y ago
  Could fseek be considered more harmful than goto?
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    #define fseek goto
jahewson 12y ago
It's a real shame that Julia doesn't have a well defined syntax, especially given that the parser is written in the author's own non-standard lisp dialect.
- 3JPLW 12y ago
  Honest question: why does that matter to you? The language is still pre-1.0. There's also a fully functional Julia implementation if the parser now, too: https://github.com/jakebolewski/JuliaParser.jl https://github.com/jakebolewski/JuliaParser.jl
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- StefanKarpinski 12y ago
  Femtolisp is a very small, fast Scheme implementation – and Scheme is the most thoroughly standardized dialect of Lisp there is. The fact that Julia's parser is implemented in flisp also completely irrelevant to the user – you can for all purposes just consider it a C program that implements a custom parser for Julia. It's true that there isn't a formal grammar specification of Julia's grammar, but I'm not sure what that would be especially useful for.
  - cwp 12y ago
    It would be useful for implementing Julia parsers.
    - StefanKarpinski 12y ago
      That's true but I'm not sure how many of those one wants until the language reaches a 1.0 version.
  - Guthur 12y ago
    "...Scheme is the most thoroughly standardized dialect of Lisp there is" More standardized that ANSI Common Lisp, hint it's in the name. </facetious-reply>
zem 12y ago
i have never gotten a good answer to why lush [http://lush.sourceforge.net/ http://lush.sourceforge.net/] failed to be a succesful goldilocks language in this space. the only real flaw i saw in it was the lack of lexical scoping; other than that it looked like a great solution to the same problems julia is addressing.
ende 12y ago
I love the history here. I know many CS programs offer a programming languages course, but I really think that should be mandatory.

82 points by 3JPLW 12y ago

Julia is an awesome language (and about time too!). For those of looking for a more lispy tool, checkout the version of Matlisp I'm writing: https://github.com/enupten/matlisp/wiki https://github.com/enupten/matlisp/wiki

agumonkey 12y ago

> PHP initially implemented its loops by fseek() in the source code. real #wtf ps: ltu discussion http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4990 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4990

StefanKarpinski 12y ago
I keep thinking about that tidbit and laughing.
jacquesm 12y ago
That looks like someone took the 'everything is a file' unix mantra a little bit too far.
- agumonkey 12y ago
  hyper late bound lazy streamed os cached interpreter pattern
krapp 12y ago
wait... how does that even work? Read the current file's source from the start of a block and eval() the text n times or something? That's just cheating.
- agumonkey 12y ago
  Do you really wanna know ?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - pavel_lishin 12y ago
    Yes!
thret 12y ago
Could fseek be considered more harmful than goto?
- agumonkey 12y ago
  #define fseek goto

jahewson 12y ago

It's a real shame that Julia doesn't have a well defined syntax, especially given that the parser is written in the author's own non-standard lisp dialect.

3JPLW 12y ago
Honest question: why does that matter to you? The language is still pre-1.0. There's also a fully functional Julia implementation if the parser now, too: https://github.com/jakebolewski/JuliaParser.jl https://github.com/jakebolewski/JuliaParser.jl
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
StefanKarpinski 12y ago
Femtolisp is a very small, fast Scheme implementation – and Scheme is the most thoroughly standardized dialect of Lisp there is. The fact that Julia's parser is implemented in flisp also completely irrelevant to the user – you can for all purposes just consider it a C program that implements a custom parser for Julia. It's true that there isn't a formal grammar specification of Julia's grammar, but I'm not sure what that would be especially useful for.
- cwp 12y ago
  It would be useful for implementing Julia parsers.
  - StefanKarpinski 12y ago
    That's true but I'm not sure how many of those one wants until the language reaches a 1.0 version.
- Guthur 12y ago
  "...Scheme is the most thoroughly standardized dialect of Lisp there is" More standardized that ANSI Common Lisp, hint it's in the name. </facetious-reply>

zem 12y ago

i have never gotten a good answer to why lush [http://lush.sourceforge.net/ http://lush.sourceforge.net/] failed to be a succesful goldilocks language in this space. the only real flaw i saw in it was the lack of lexical scoping; other than that it looked like a great solution to the same problems julia is addressing.

ende 12y ago

I love the history here. I know many CS programs offer a programming languages course, but I really think that should be mandatory.