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According to the video in the product pages [1] the creator of this pan came up with the idea on a mountaineering trip because "it takes forever to boil water a

by carlob 12y ago

According to the video in the product pages [1] the creator of this pan came up with the idea on a mountaineering trip because "it takes forever to boil water at high altitude". What?! Isn't it the other way around? Lower atmospheric pressure means that water boils at significantly lower temperature [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lKvbVJasGXc#t=29 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lK... [2] http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=boiling%20temperature%20of%20water%20at%202000%20m http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=boiling%20temperature%2...

kazinator 12y ago
Hi carlob; my thoughts exactly! The boiling point is lower. It takes longer to boil foods because of the lower temperature, but that's a different problem from time-to-boil, which should be shorter, if anything.
- carlob 12y ago
  It does take longer to cook food by boiling it, but having a more efficient pan won't help for that. As a matter of fact it becomes almost impossible to make risotto at altitudes over 3000 m.
  - sampo 12y ago
    But a more efficient heat transfer would mean smaller fuel consumption. Maybe important if you carry the fuel yourself.
maxerickson 12y ago
I guess a lot of stoves don't work as well in the thinner, usually colder air. (with all sorts of other things feeding into it, the fuel, the particular design of the stove, etc.)
Avshalom 12y ago
Not that strapping a heat exchanger to a pot is a new idea among the sort of people that would be on mountaineering trips http://www.esbit.de/en/products/72/2-35l-pot-with-heat-exchanger-phe2350wn http://www.esbit.de/en/products/72/2-35l-pot-with-heat-excha... http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/cookware/cookware-accessories/heat-exchanger/product http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/cookware/cookware-accessor... http://www.jetboil.com/ http://www.jetboil.com/ http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/stove-systems/category http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/stove-systems/categ...
- micro_cam 12y ago
  Actually owning a jetboil makes me want one of these pots. That thing just sips fuel.
Blahah 12y ago
At high altitude you boil water in a pressure cooker. That takes a long time - perhaps that's what he's referring to.
thisrod 12y ago
The problem is that it's cold up there, so the vapour pressure in a cartridge of liquified gas is much lower, and the flame in your stove is pretty marginal.
notok22 12y ago
I'm not sure this is what he meant, but I think he refers to the temperature of the water. If you lower the pressure, it takes a lesser temperature to get the water to start boiling. So if you go on a mountain and put a pot with water over a fire, it will start evaporating rapidly(boiling) at a lesser temperature than 100 degrees Celsius, so he needs a more efficient way to transfer more heat into the water to get it to 100 degrees Celsius(normal boiling temperature).
- ramchip 12y ago
  Putting more heat into boiling water won't make hit hotter, it'll just evaporate quicker. You'd need a pressure cooker.
micro_cam 12y ago
The boiling point of water is lower but there are a few other things going on: Most water is snow or ice so you need to raise it from that point not room temperature. Snow also has lots of air in which means it and is a really good insulator and floats so to get a pot of boiling water you need to sit there making snow balls and dropping them and waiting for them to melt then bring that water up to temperature. All of your water for drinking, cooking and cleaning comes from snow since there often isn't any liquid water. You don't need to boil all of it unless it might be contaminated (like at a crowded camp) but it takes a lot of time just to melt a water bottles worth of snow. The ambient temperature may be lower and there will be wind. You will loose a lot of heat to convection (wind blocks or cooking in a tent help). The air is thinner and lots of stoves don't get the fuel/oxygen mix they need. The boiling point of isobutane is 10F so if you are using fuel canisters and it is cold you'll need to work to warm the fuel up as well or you'll get much less power then normal (use a propane blend, keep one fuel canister in your pocket to warm it up, put it in a warm water bath while cooking, use a stove that has a preheat loop to warm cold fuel and can be used with an inverted canister). Then once you get your water up to boil it takes longer to cook things because of the lower boiling point. They say mountaineering is for people with selective memories that prevent them from recalling suffering ;)

by carlob 12y ago

kazinator 12y ago

Hi carlob; my thoughts exactly! The boiling point is lower. It takes longer to boil foods because of the lower temperature, but that's a different problem from time-to-boil, which should be shorter, if anything.

carlob 12y ago
It does take longer to cook food by boiling it, but having a more efficient pan won't help for that. As a matter of fact it becomes almost impossible to make risotto at altitudes over 3000 m.
- sampo 12y ago
  But a more efficient heat transfer would mean smaller fuel consumption. Maybe important if you carry the fuel yourself.

maxerickson 12y ago

I guess a lot of stoves don't work as well in the thinner, usually colder air. (with all sorts of other things feeding into it, the fuel, the particular design of the stove, etc.)

Avshalom 12y ago

Not that strapping a heat exchanger to a pot is a new idea among the sort of people that would be on mountaineering trips http://www.esbit.de/en/products/72/2-35l-pot-with-heat-exchanger-phe2350wn http://www.esbit.de/en/products/72/2-35l-pot-with-heat-excha... http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/cookware/cookware-accessories/heat-exchanger/product http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/cookware/cookware-accessor... http://www.jetboil.com/ http://www.jetboil.com/ http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/stove-systems/category http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/stove-systems/categ...

micro_cam 12y ago
Actually owning a jetboil makes me want one of these pots. That thing just sips fuel.

Blahah 12y ago

At high altitude you boil water in a pressure cooker. That takes a long time - perhaps that's what he's referring to.

thisrod 12y ago

The problem is that it's cold up there, so the vapour pressure in a cartridge of liquified gas is much lower, and the flame in your stove is pretty marginal.

notok22 12y ago

I'm not sure this is what he meant, but I think he refers to the temperature of the water. If you lower the pressure, it takes a lesser temperature to get the water to start boiling. So if you go on a mountain and put a pot with water over a fire, it will start evaporating rapidly(boiling) at a lesser temperature than 100 degrees Celsius, so he needs a more efficient way to transfer more heat into the water to get it to 100 degrees Celsius(normal boiling temperature).

ramchip 12y ago
Putting more heat into boiling water won't make hit hotter, it'll just evaporate quicker. You'd need a pressure cooker.

micro_cam 12y ago

The boiling point of water is lower but there are a few other things going on: Most water is snow or ice so you need to raise it from that point not room temperature. Snow also has lots of air in which means it and is a really good insulator and floats so to get a pot of boiling water you need to sit there making snow balls and dropping them and waiting for them to melt then bring that water up to temperature. All of your water for drinking, cooking and cleaning comes from snow since there often isn't any liquid water. You don't need to boil all of it unless it might be contaminated (like at a crowded camp) but it takes a lot of time just to melt a water bottles worth of snow. The ambient temperature may be lower and there will be wind. You will loose a lot of heat to convection (wind blocks or cooking in a tent help). The air is thinner and lots of stoves don't get the fuel/oxygen mix they need. The boiling point of isobutane is 10F so if you are using fuel canisters and it is cold you'll need to work to warm the fuel up as well or you'll get much less power then normal (use a propane blend, keep one fuel canister in your pocket to warm it up, put it in a warm water bath while cooking, use a stove that has a preheat loop to warm cold fuel and can be used with an inverted canister). Then once you get your water up to boil it takes longer to cook things because of the lower boiling point. They say mountaineering is for people with selective memories that prevent them from recalling suffering ;)