6 ms·

I'm originally from Miami born and raised (Live in SF Now) and I have skin in the game, I own a house in Miami. However this piece is largely fluff and fear mon

by kenrikm 12y ago

I'm originally from Miami born and raised (Live in SF Now) and I have skin in the game, I own a house in Miami. However this piece is largely fluff and fear mongering, Miami has always flooded, The city of Sweet Water would be completely flooded every few months until they finally put in proper drainage after 20+ years of the same thing. The problem is poorly thought out city planning over the last 40 or so years, not a recent sea level rise.

kephra 12y ago
A good part of Netherlands is below sea level. Just build dikes like the Dutch, and the problem is solved. But I guess the people in Miami would protest against those dikes, when their houses are no longer water front, but behind a dike.
- mikecb 12y ago
  Does the Netherlands get hurricanes?
  - smackay 12y ago
    Sometimes, http://dutchcommunity.com/2012/05/24/the-1953-watersnoodramp-flood-disaster/ http://dutchcommunity.com/2012/05/24/the-1953-watersnoodramp...
  - iamtew 12y ago
    We do. Maybe not that often, but it do happen. There was one in October that made a lot of damage here [1], but also two days ago (albeit not hurricane) there was a storm that flooded large parts of Amsterdam [2] and killed on person. [3] 1: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-force-storm-batters-northern-europe/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-force-storm-batters-no... 2: http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131015/honderden-meldingen-van-wateroverlast-door-noodweer http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131015/honderden-meldingen-van-w... 3: http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131014/storm-eist-een-leven http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131014/storm-eist-een-leven
- m4x 12y ago
  Dikes won't stop water seeping up through the porous limestone which Miami is built on, nor are they practical for protecting the everglades or any of the existing fresh water and sewerage systems I think the bigger problem is that the resources for dealing with this sort of catastrophe will be stretched very thin when every coastal city the world over is trying to deal with rising water levels.
pdonis 12y ago
> The problem is poorly thought out city planning over the last 40 or so years, not a recent sea level rise. Exactly. The article says there has been about a 10-inch rise in sea levels since the 19th century. That's plenty of time to plan and adapt.
- mikeash 12y ago
  It's plenty of time if you can admit you have a problem and get started on the planning and adaptation. The trouble is that half of the political spectrum in this country has as one of its dearest beliefs the denial that this problem is occurring. This really interferes with long-term mitigation efforts.
  - pdonis 12y ago
    > half of the political spectrum in this country has as one of its dearest beliefs the denial that this problem is occurring The Guardian article isn't actually talking about the general "problem" of climate change, even though it titled it that way for ideological reasons. Water backing up through storm sewers during high tides is an obvious issue regardless of the underlying long-term cause; it's bad design, and it shouldn't require a belief that climate change is a worldwide problem to understand that your own city's storm water system needs to be redesigned. I'm sure there are plenty of irrational political reasons why Miami hasn't fixed its storm water system, but I doubt that climate change "denial" is significant among them; I expect it's just, well, politics--elected officials don't get votes by forcing the city to make the hard choices that would have to be made to fix the problem.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      Pointing out that the current problem exists regardless of the long-term cause is completely rational, but US politics (and no doubt politics in general) is far from rational. The denial half is so deeply invested in its beliefs that it's incapable of doing anything to address any current consequences that might be due to the change they don't believe is happening. You don't have to believe in climate change to fix Miami's storm water system. But you can't be stuck with a belief system that holds that sea levels aren't rising and that nothing needs to be done to adapt to the sea level rise that has already taken place, because doing something would be an implicit admission that something has happened which you believe hasn't.

by kenrikm 12y ago

kephra 12y ago

A good part of Netherlands is below sea level. Just build dikes like the Dutch, and the problem is solved. But I guess the people in Miami would protest against those dikes, when their houses are no longer water front, but behind a dike.

mikecb 12y ago
Does the Netherlands get hurricanes?
- smackay 12y ago
  Sometimes, http://dutchcommunity.com/2012/05/24/the-1953-watersnoodramp-flood-disaster/ http://dutchcommunity.com/2012/05/24/the-1953-watersnoodramp...
- iamtew 12y ago
  We do. Maybe not that often, but it do happen. There was one in October that made a lot of damage here [1], but also two days ago (albeit not hurricane) there was a storm that flooded large parts of Amsterdam [2] and killed on person. [3] 1: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-force-storm-batters-northern-europe/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hurricane-force-storm-batters-no... 2: http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131015/honderden-meldingen-van-wateroverlast-door-noodweer http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131015/honderden-meldingen-van-w... 3: http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131014/storm-eist-een-leven http://www.at5.nl/artikelen/131014/storm-eist-een-leven
m4x 12y ago
Dikes won't stop water seeping up through the porous limestone which Miami is built on, nor are they practical for protecting the everglades or any of the existing fresh water and sewerage systems I think the bigger problem is that the resources for dealing with this sort of catastrophe will be stretched very thin when every coastal city the world over is trying to deal with rising water levels.

pdonis 12y ago

> The problem is poorly thought out city planning over the last 40 or so years, not a recent sea level rise. Exactly. The article says there has been about a 10-inch rise in sea levels since the 19th century. That's plenty of time to plan and adapt.

mikeash 12y ago
It's plenty of time if you can admit you have a problem and get started on the planning and adaptation. The trouble is that half of the political spectrum in this country has as one of its dearest beliefs the denial that this problem is occurring. This really interferes with long-term mitigation efforts.
- pdonis 12y ago
  > half of the political spectrum in this country has as one of its dearest beliefs the denial that this problem is occurring The Guardian article isn't actually talking about the general "problem" of climate change, even though it titled it that way for ideological reasons. Water backing up through storm sewers during high tides is an obvious issue regardless of the underlying long-term cause; it's bad design, and it shouldn't require a belief that climate change is a worldwide problem to understand that your own city's storm water system needs to be redesigned. I'm sure there are plenty of irrational political reasons why Miami hasn't fixed its storm water system, but I doubt that climate change "denial" is significant among them; I expect it's just, well, politics--elected officials don't get votes by forcing the city to make the hard choices that would have to be made to fix the problem.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Pointing out that the current problem exists regardless of the long-term cause is completely rational, but US politics (and no doubt politics in general) is far from rational. The denial half is so deeply invested in its beliefs that it's incapable of doing anything to address any current consequences that might be due to the change they don't believe is happening. You don't have to believe in climate change to fix Miami's storm water system. But you can't be stuck with a belief system that holds that sea levels aren't rising and that nothing needs to be done to adapt to the sea level rise that has already taken place, because doing something would be an implicit admission that something has happened which you believe hasn't.