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While Marijuana may have uses for medicine. As a recreational drug, I think the in ability to easily check when you consumed it, or to have a high as a result o

by drakaal 12y ago

While Marijuana may have uses for medicine. As a recreational drug, I think the in ability to easily check when you consumed it, or to have a high as a result of just burning off fat. (it is fat soluble, and you can end up high even years later if you burn enough calories) Makes it harder to enforce responsible use than say alcohol. I don't think we want pilots, surgeons, or police doing their jobs while high, and since the buzz could come quite a long time after consumption that would always be a risk. Hemp is often promised to be this miracle product that will solve all of our problems, but visiting places where hemp is legal we don't see massive quantities of it. We import cotton, and bamboo, but you don't see many hemp t-shirts. We even import paper, which is one of the things Hemp is pretty decent at. But we don't see much Hemp paper. Turns out ink doesn't stick to it as well as it does to Wood pulp and cotton blends. The real reason Pot is still illegal is that it is dangerous to those who aren't consuming it. A stoned Doctor might not smell of it, might not have any real outwards signs, and then could get the giggles when he nicked an artery. Edit: Years may have been a stretch. Looks like 7 days has been shown in a lab, and the CDC thinks weeks. http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/17/one-toke-many-hits-exe.. http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/17/one-toke-many-hits-exe.... http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm

hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
Is the fact that alcohol use is easily detected in a field-administered test all that keeps surgeons from doing surgery drunk?
- drakaal 12y ago
  No, but easily defined rules about how long between a drink and the surgery is. Just like pilots. You can drink and be a pilot, just not 8 hours before. How long you have a high varies wildly, and under stress old highs can come back. Edit: And if you think you can come up with a combination where you didn't die an hour after your drinks and are still drunk 8 hours later, here is a calculator http://touchcalc.com/calculators/bac http://touchcalc.com/calculators/bac
  - hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
    The rules are --very specifically-- exactly as easily defined for marijuana. There is no test that can determine when someone last had a drink. The results of a blood alcohol test for someone who had a beer 7 hours and 30 minutes ago will be wildly different than those of someone who skipped dinner and crushed a fifth of whiskey 7 hours and 30 minutes ago...
  - hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
    Any source for the calculations that calculator uses? A quick search says alcohol can be detected in blood up to 12 hours[1]. How many doobies does it take to stay high for 8 hours? [1] https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojp/181103.pdf https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojp/181103.pdf
bpeebles 12y ago
Do you have any links to actual studies that find you can get high by burning fat "even years later"? Everything I've read has said that some of the metabolites of THC can be stored in fat--and those are the actual compounds tested by "marijuana" tests, but THC itself isn't stored in the human body after the initial processing even if it is fat soluble itself. Lengths of high vary, but so do lengths of being drunk. And lengths of undergoing caffeine or nicotine withdrawal or being high on them.
- drakaal 12y ago
  Years may have been a stretch. Looks like 7 days has been shown in a lab, and the CDC thinks weeks. http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/17/one-toke-many-hits-exercise-could-trigger-additional-high-for-marijuana-users/ http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/17/one-toke-many-hits-exe... http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm
ggfdsgsdfg 12y ago
You're going to have to post some citation on the whole "getting high from burning THC-laden fat" point. Just because it's fat soluble doesn't mean you can get high enough concentrations in your bloodstream from exercise alone to cause impairment, or even be noticeable.
- hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
  [0] wild conjecture
chroma 12y ago
Even if your claims are true, the harm caused by imprisoning users is much greater than the harm caused by allowing use.
BariumBlue 12y ago
Remember, these are adults, not little kids. If I can't trust them to be professional and cautious of risks, I wouldn't bother with their services, and likely neither would their employer. Personally, i think sleep deprivation is a much bigger issue for pilots and doctors than weed. Please, do leave careless speculation and personal vendettas by the door.
iguana 12y ago
This is completely ridiculous and written by someone with absolutely no experience with marijuana. The idea that you "could end up high years later" is laughable, and has absolutely no basis in scientific fact. "A stoned Doctor might not smell of it, might not have any real outwards signs, and then could get the giggles when he nicked an artery." Marijuana does not cause a significant impairment in regular users. Even if that were not the case, if a doctor chooses to be intoxicated when they are responsible for someone else's life, they are already making a terrible choice, regardless of the legality of the substance in question.
cal2 12y ago
I'll preface by saying that I used to smoke a lot of weed, but I haven't in quite some time. > it is fat soluble, and you can end up high even years later if you burn enough calories Please cite this extensively. Many bioactive molecules are fat-soluble. Just because a substance is fat-soluble doesn't mean it can be stored indefinitely and readily metabolized. > The real reason Pot is still illegal is that it is dangerous to those who aren't consuming it. A stoned Doctor might not smell of it, might not have any real outwards signs, and then could get the giggles when he nicked an artery. I disagree with you 100% here. I can tell when someone is stoned, regardless of physical side-effects, changes in mentality or demeanor, etc. Regardless, in my opinion, your argument crumbles if we clarify stoned to be under the influence of well-concealed alcohol, benzodiazepines, opiates, barbiturates, excessive stimulants, or, hell, maybe even ketamine, methaqualone, etc. I (unfortunately, I suppose) have had experiences with pretty much every drug and RC under the sun, and I personally think it's very easy to detect when someone is under the influence of marijuana compared to any of the substances thereof (well, maybe except the dissociatives or excessive alcohol).
lotsofmangos 12y ago
it is fat soluble, and you can end up high even years later if you burn enough calories You are confusing pot with one of the presumed mechanisms for LSD flashbacks.
Zigurd 12y ago
Wow. I had no idea people believed stuff like this. Cannabis appears not to have a large negative effect on people in at least some elite performance situations, like musical performance and freestyle snowboarding. What's particularly hilarious is the debate of whether cannabis might be categorized as a performance enhancing drug.
cmdrfred 12y ago
Marijuana is the easiest drug to test for. The metabolites (READ: the byproduct of use, not the active chemical that gets you high) can stay in your system for up to 90 days in chronic use cases. While heroin is out in 4. Alcohol is out in 2. So if anything, Marijuana is the easiest drug to enforce. That said, I don't want to continue feeding the troll, or the chronically misinformed. http://www.passyourdrugtest.com/timetable.htm http://www.passyourdrugtest.com/timetable.htm
- drakaal 12y ago
  You reiterate the point. It stays in the system longer. Also, length of time and ease of test is not the same. Breathalyzer's are under $5 to produce and use just breath. No test for THC exists that doesn't require a more substantial "contribution" to the test. (hair, urine, blood)
  - cmdrfred 12y ago
    Drug tests look for 11-nor-9-Carboxy-THC, not Tetrahydrocannabinol. The amount in your system days after use is so minimal so that it has no effect. I'd like to see a case study of someone getting measurably impaired days after use.

by drakaal 12y ago

hamiltonkibbe 12y ago

Is the fact that alcohol use is easily detected in a field-administered test all that keeps surgeons from doing surgery drunk?

drakaal 12y ago
No, but easily defined rules about how long between a drink and the surgery is. Just like pilots. You can drink and be a pilot, just not 8 hours before. How long you have a high varies wildly, and under stress old highs can come back. Edit: And if you think you can come up with a combination where you didn't die an hour after your drinks and are still drunk 8 hours later, here is a calculator http://touchcalc.com/calculators/bac http://touchcalc.com/calculators/bac
- hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
  The rules are --very specifically-- exactly as easily defined for marijuana. There is no test that can determine when someone last had a drink. The results of a blood alcohol test for someone who had a beer 7 hours and 30 minutes ago will be wildly different than those of someone who skipped dinner and crushed a fifth of whiskey 7 hours and 30 minutes ago...
- hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
  Any source for the calculations that calculator uses? A quick search says alcohol can be detected in blood up to 12 hours[1]. How many doobies does it take to stay high for 8 hours? [1] https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojp/181103.pdf https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojp/181103.pdf

bpeebles 12y ago

Do you have any links to actual studies that find you can get high by burning fat "even years later"? Everything I've read has said that some of the metabolites of THC can be stored in fat--and those are the actual compounds tested by "marijuana" tests, but THC itself isn't stored in the human body after the initial processing even if it is fat soluble itself. Lengths of high vary, but so do lengths of being drunk. And lengths of undergoing caffeine or nicotine withdrawal or being high on them.

drakaal 12y ago
Years may have been a stretch. Looks like 7 days has been shown in a lab, and the CDC thinks weeks. http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/17/one-toke-many-hits-exercise-could-trigger-additional-high-for-marijuana-users/ http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/17/one-toke-many-hits-exe... http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001143.htm

ggfdsgsdfg 12y ago

You're going to have to post some citation on the whole "getting high from burning THC-laden fat" point. Just because it's fat soluble doesn't mean you can get high enough concentrations in your bloodstream from exercise alone to cause impairment, or even be noticeable.

hamiltonkibbe 12y ago
[0] wild conjecture

chroma 12y ago

Even if your claims are true, the harm caused by imprisoning users is much greater than the harm caused by allowing use.

BariumBlue 12y ago

Remember, these are adults, not little kids. If I can't trust them to be professional and cautious of risks, I wouldn't bother with their services, and likely neither would their employer. Personally, i think sleep deprivation is a much bigger issue for pilots and doctors than weed. Please, do leave careless speculation and personal vendettas by the door.

iguana 12y ago

This is completely ridiculous and written by someone with absolutely no experience with marijuana. The idea that you "could end up high years later" is laughable, and has absolutely no basis in scientific fact. "A stoned Doctor might not smell of it, might not have any real outwards signs, and then could get the giggles when he nicked an artery." Marijuana does not cause a significant impairment in regular users. Even if that were not the case, if a doctor chooses to be intoxicated when they are responsible for someone else's life, they are already making a terrible choice, regardless of the legality of the substance in question.

cal2 12y ago

I'll preface by saying that I used to smoke a lot of weed, but I haven't in quite some time. > it is fat soluble, and you can end up high even years later if you burn enough calories Please cite this extensively. Many bioactive molecules are fat-soluble. Just because a substance is fat-soluble doesn't mean it can be stored indefinitely and readily metabolized. > The real reason Pot is still illegal is that it is dangerous to those who aren't consuming it. A stoned Doctor might not smell of it, might not have any real outwards signs, and then could get the giggles when he nicked an artery. I disagree with you 100% here. I can tell when someone is stoned, regardless of physical side-effects, changes in mentality or demeanor, etc. Regardless, in my opinion, your argument crumbles if we clarify stoned to be under the influence of well-concealed alcohol, benzodiazepines, opiates, barbiturates, excessive stimulants, or, hell, maybe even ketamine, methaqualone, etc. I (unfortunately, I suppose) have had experiences with pretty much every drug and RC under the sun, and I personally think it's very easy to detect when someone is under the influence of marijuana compared to any of the substances thereof (well, maybe except the dissociatives or excessive alcohol).

lotsofmangos 12y ago

it is fat soluble, and you can end up high even years later if you burn enough calories You are confusing pot with one of the presumed mechanisms for LSD flashbacks.

Zigurd 12y ago

Wow. I had no idea people believed stuff like this. Cannabis appears not to have a large negative effect on people in at least some elite performance situations, like musical performance and freestyle snowboarding. What's particularly hilarious is the debate of whether cannabis might be categorized as a performance enhancing drug.

cmdrfred 12y ago

Marijuana is the easiest drug to test for. The metabolites (READ: the byproduct of use, not the active chemical that gets you high) can stay in your system for up to 90 days in chronic use cases. While heroin is out in 4. Alcohol is out in 2. So if anything, Marijuana is the easiest drug to enforce. That said, I don't want to continue feeding the troll, or the chronically misinformed. http://www.passyourdrugtest.com/timetable.htm http://www.passyourdrugtest.com/timetable.htm

drakaal 12y ago
You reiterate the point. It stays in the system longer. Also, length of time and ease of test is not the same. Breathalyzer's are under $5 to produce and use just breath. No test for THC exists that doesn't require a more substantial "contribution" to the test. (hair, urine, blood)
- cmdrfred 12y ago
  Drug tests look for 11-nor-9-Carboxy-THC, not Tetrahydrocannabinol. The amount in your system days after use is so minimal so that it has no effect. I'd like to see a case study of someone getting measurably impaired days after use.