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How Coffee Fueled the Civil War

144 points by lsh123 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jostmey 12y ago
I believe Coffee is an addictive substance well suited for human beings. Although it is addictive, it is self-limiting. Most people will naturally stop drinking it at the sweet spot.
- t0ss3r 12y ago
  Source?
  - retejo 12y ago
    "I belive"
    - t0ss3r 12y ago
      Sure, I get that, but: > Most people will naturally stop drinking it at the sweet spot. Putting an "I believe" before a claim like that is insufficient, given the evidence of people who are anywhere but at a so-called sweet spot.
      - rdtsc 12y ago
        See, writing a full sentence wasn't that bad. Why didn't you do that to start with instead of "srs plz?".
- MadMoogle 12y ago
  Over time, you need to drink more and more to get to that sweet spot. Most people do self limit, but not because of that.
  - encoderer 12y ago
    While your comment about drug tolerance rings true, I think you're indulging in logic at the cost of common sense. I know many people -- myself and my wife included -- that are "one cup a day" types. I've had just one mug of coffee every morning for most of the last 10 years.
    - MadMoogle 12y ago
      I'm merely dispelling the "common sense" myth that caffeine has a built in limiter, thus making it "safe" without any conscious effort on your part. It doesn't and it isn't. In a high stress startup environment that provides an unlimited amount of coffee and energy drinks and always seems to be in crunch mode, it's easy for your caffeine consumption to creep up to "could kill a horse" levels. I've seen it happen to others. I've had it happen to me. The end results aren't nearly as bad as, say, alcohol addiction, but it's still not something I want to live through twice.
- keithpeter 12y ago
  360 pounds a year = about 3kg of beans a week. That is a fair old sweet spot! I have one strong moka pot of coffee a day, say 400ml cup. If I stop having coffee for a week or two now and again, I get a headache the first day or so.
  - smoyer 12y ago
    The article said 36 pounds ... I don't drink as much coffee as I used to, but I suspect I'm in the ballpark of "surviving on Union rations".
    - keithpeter 12y ago
      Must change my reading glasses. That seems a much smaller 300g ration per week. I get through a 200g bag of fine ground coffee in a couple or three weeks at one strong mug a day or there abouts.
fiatmoney 12y ago
There are similar anecdotes about the use of coffee during cattle drives in the West post-Civil War.
- gcb0 12y ago
  wonder how historians will write about silicon valley. you can probably use that same text
  - hiphopyo 12y ago
    Same for med students on amphetamines
javert 12y ago
It is well known that a graduate student is a machine for converting coffee into theorems. But who knew that the American soldier can be a machine for converting coffee into freedom?
- polarix 12y ago
  Only if you take the romantic view that the civil war was fought over slavery, instead of over states' rights. Or perhaps if you define freedom precisely as that which you fight for in the name of America.
  - Punoxysm 12y ago
    It was fought over states' right to maintain the constitutionality of slavery.
  - javert 12y ago
    Come on man, that is the cleverest thing I've said so far on HN and thanks to having 0 votes nobody will ever see it. Being a Southerner, I think the view that the civil war was fought over states' rights is the romantic view. Anyway, the two really aren't mutually exclusive, it was both. And no, I don't define freedom in such a dumb way, why would I? P.S. Properly speaking, only individuals have rights. States do not have rights, neither does the federal government. Of course this was not understood fully by the Founding Fathers and it's also not true in a legal sense, only a moral one.
  - taejo 12y ago
    The Mississippi declaration of secession states explicitly that it's about slavery: In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. (emphasis mine)
bbzealot 12y ago
My grandpa fought the WWII in the Italian Army. He told me that during war, they had to drink coffee with anise every day, and they were forced to do so. Of course it wasn't really just "coffee with anise", but it contained some kind of drug. He remembers that, after drinking that "coffee", he could see a dying fellow soldier calling for help, and just don't care about that. He was sent to war after a quick training lasted just a few weeks, and I guess that without taking some kind of drugs, the average 20 years old guy wouldn't be able to fight a war without going crazy.
- stinos 12y ago
  he could see a dying fellow soldier calling for help, and just don't care about that. Could be side effect of 'plain' amphetamines, which were used heavily by all sides in that war. Wouldn't be surprised at all if that or similar substances are still being used today: when not considering the disadvantages, it will make a person better at certain war-related tasks.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- justin66 12y ago
  Sambuca's an eighty proof, anise-flavored liquor that's often used to make "caffè corretto." It's kind of a traditional Italian thing among some guys, although better made with espresso. Worth trying if you've never had it. I doubt he was being dosed with anything more exotic than that. (not to trivialize it: I wouldn't want to handle a gun after drinking that kind of alcohol) What your grandfather described, starting to not care about the suffering surrounding him, is a very natural and human thing.
  - bbzealot 12y ago
    I don't think so. First of all, I'm quite sure sambuca was nowhere as popular as today back in the 40s. And I really doubt they would have been forced to drink coffee if it was just plain coffee (and I wouldn't see the point in forcing someone to drink coffee with... sambuca?). Finally, I don't think I could not care about a friend dying and calling for help near me, even if it was during war. I know my grandpa is not a 100% reliable source, after all we're talking about facts that happened 70 years ago, but I'm pretty sure this can be a true story.
keithpeter 12y ago
Muckets look interesting, especially the galvanised jug shaped ones. I remember seeing white enamel pots of similar shape used by workmen road mending and track mending - they brewed on a brazier cast iron with coke as fuel. I'm talking 60s in UK. Does anyone know the tricks used to 'settle' the grounds?
- justincormack 12y ago
  I have had "jug coffee", where you just let it settle. You dont want to grind it too fine. I don't recommend it really though, you still get some grounds.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    Meh, grounds ain't a big deal. I swirl the cup each time before I sip. Barely noticeable. And a bit extra fiber, or whatever.
- mbubb 12y ago
  My grandfather would put a piece of eggshell in to settle them - not sure how scientific that is... edit - found this http://blog.khymos.org/2010/08/04/norwegian-egg-coffee/ http://blog.khymos.org/2010/08/04/norwegian-egg-coffee/ "When looking into the chemistry behind this it isn’t as strange as it may sound. Fish skin as well as eggs contain proteins. The addition of proteins while preparing the coffee serves two purposes: 1) it helps the coffee grounds to flocculate, allowing them to sink faster to the bottom of the pot (this effect is probably more pronounced when using eggs) and 2) the proteins bind irreversibly to astringent and bitter tasting polyphenols in coffee to form insoluble complexes that will precipitate. The end result is a clearer coffee with a pleasant and mild taste. The bitterness is only barely noticeable, but the coffee still has enough “body” so it doesn’t feel too thin! "
  - keithpeter 12y ago
    Interesting; fish scales are used to clear white wine of course (or were before industrial scale production). Thanks for that link
dasil003 12y ago
Ahhh! Enjoying this article over my morning cup.
- smoyer 12y ago
  I was grinding as I read the comments ... now to brew :)
  - mbubb 12y ago
    heh - me too
barking 12y ago
For the British soldier, substitute tea or 'a brew' as it's referred to.
higherpurpose 12y ago
The part at the end especially, kind of makes me want to give up coffee. Seems too addicting, like it has too much control over us, and I don't like that.
- keithpeter 12y ago
  I do a week off tea, coffee and juices, just water, every now and again. Some headaches and discomfort day 1, usually fine and chipper by day 3 onwards. I'm on one strong large mug (two ordinary cups) of coffee and one or two teas a day normally. I don't have caffeinated soft drinks at all.
  - AJ007 12y ago
    I have not seen evidence of any significant negative health effects from either tea of coffee. The positives would appear to be fairly high. Juice I avoid.
tim333 12y ago
Ah coffee. I wonder what percentage of coding is fuelled by coffee. Quite a lot I'd imagine.
gabemart 12y ago
I wonder about the relationship between caffeine and the near-universal spread of tea and coffee as hot beverages. I love tisanes, what are informally called herbal teas. I find it striking that there are literally hundreds of plants used to make herbal teas with an incredibly long history - mint, chamomile, dandelion, jasmine, red clover, elderflower, passion flower, hibiscus, etc. etc. But none of them have a tenth of one percent of the popularity of coffee or true tea. Many people who enjoy tea and coffee enjoy the effects of the caffeine. But I'm surprised at the scale of the difference between the popularity of caffeinated and non-caffeinated drinks.
- backlava 12y ago
  But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
  - taejo 12y ago
    Tea and tisanes are to some extent substitute goods, so increased demand for tisanes lowers the price of tea in China ;)
    - JacobAldridge 12y ago
      I have few pleasures in life greater than finding a way to answer that question no matter what situation. Sadly, as a result, no-one ever asks me anymore. Thanks for the memories.
- vertex-four 12y ago
  Catnip herbal tea is also delicious, and extremely calming to a point that nothing else I've tried is, personally.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  No doubt. Caffeine in tea, especially green though, produces a wakefulness and alertness more than jitters that coffee produce. Tisanes are and were popular before coffee and teas spread. A lot of was part of the popular medicines. "Put in these plants in hot water and drink it" was very common. Not to forget about yerba mate, a caffeineted South American beverage. Very popular (check), not tea and not coffee (check), caffeinated (check). So yes it seems caffeine has a considerable effect in the spread of popularity.
oftenwrong 12y ago
I found a picture of the Antietam memorial depicting William McKinley delivering coffee: http://www.dispatch.com/content/graphics/2012/08/27/Antietam15.JPG http://www.dispatch.com/content/graphics/2012/08/27/Antietam...
mbubb 12y ago
This made me think of a great HN piece from a few weeks back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7921691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7921691 Balzac on pleasures and pains of coffee. A generation before the Civil War but interesting to see how coffee was used experimentally to spur creativity and production. He mentions other artists with similar experiments. To say we are addicted to coffee or tea is not just to talk of the dependence on caffeine but the whole set of rituals around it. It draws my attention and I love articles like this. I also love to learn how other people make tea or coffee (though I reserve the right to be very judgemental in that regard). Last week I sat down to watch a movie randomly picked from the Critereon Collection on Hulu. "Jeanne Dielman..." by Chantal Ackerman. Blew me away. 3.5 hours of very little action and a central scene where she does little more than make coffee Coincidentally I was sitting and reading this while grinding coffee. 2 morning rituals: HN and fresh ground coffee.
- bane 12y ago
  "Paul's coffee service, the fluted allow of silver and jasmium that he had inherited from Jamia, rested on a low table to her right. She stared at it, thinking of how many hands had touched that metal. Chani had served Paul from it within the month. What can his desert woman do for a Duke except serve him coffee? she asked herself. She brings him no power, no family." I always was fascinated by Herbert's use of coffee in Dune. A civilization so far removed from our own, by thousands of years and possibly light-years. Yet along with all the Dukes and Barons, you get coffee.

144 points by lsh123 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

I believe Coffee is an addictive substance well suited for human beings. Although it is addictive, it is self-limiting. Most people will naturally stop drinking it at the sweet spot.

t0ss3r 12y ago
Source?
- retejo 12y ago
  "I belive"
  - t0ss3r 12y ago
    Sure, I get that, but: > Most people will naturally stop drinking it at the sweet spot. Putting an "I believe" before a claim like that is insufficient, given the evidence of people who are anywhere but at a so-called sweet spot.
    - rdtsc 12y ago
      See, writing a full sentence wasn't that bad. Why didn't you do that to start with instead of "srs plz?".
MadMoogle 12y ago
Over time, you need to drink more and more to get to that sweet spot. Most people do self limit, but not because of that.
- encoderer 12y ago
  While your comment about drug tolerance rings true, I think you're indulging in logic at the cost of common sense. I know many people -- myself and my wife included -- that are "one cup a day" types. I've had just one mug of coffee every morning for most of the last 10 years.
  - MadMoogle 12y ago
    I'm merely dispelling the "common sense" myth that caffeine has a built in limiter, thus making it "safe" without any conscious effort on your part. It doesn't and it isn't. In a high stress startup environment that provides an unlimited amount of coffee and energy drinks and always seems to be in crunch mode, it's easy for your caffeine consumption to creep up to "could kill a horse" levels. I've seen it happen to others. I've had it happen to me. The end results aren't nearly as bad as, say, alcohol addiction, but it's still not something I want to live through twice.
keithpeter 12y ago
360 pounds a year = about 3kg of beans a week. That is a fair old sweet spot! I have one strong moka pot of coffee a day, say 400ml cup. If I stop having coffee for a week or two now and again, I get a headache the first day or so.
- smoyer 12y ago
  The article said 36 pounds ... I don't drink as much coffee as I used to, but I suspect I'm in the ballpark of "surviving on Union rations".
  - keithpeter 12y ago
    Must change my reading glasses. That seems a much smaller 300g ration per week. I get through a 200g bag of fine ground coffee in a couple or three weeks at one strong mug a day or there abouts.

fiatmoney 12y ago

There are similar anecdotes about the use of coffee during cattle drives in the West post-Civil War.

gcb0 12y ago
wonder how historians will write about silicon valley. you can probably use that same text
- hiphopyo 12y ago
  Same for med students on amphetamines

javert 12y ago

It is well known that a graduate student is a machine for converting coffee into theorems. But who knew that the American soldier can be a machine for converting coffee into freedom?

polarix 12y ago
Only if you take the romantic view that the civil war was fought over slavery, instead of over states' rights. Or perhaps if you define freedom precisely as that which you fight for in the name of America.
- Punoxysm 12y ago
  It was fought over states' right to maintain the constitutionality of slavery.
- javert 12y ago
  Come on man, that is the cleverest thing I've said so far on HN and thanks to having 0 votes nobody will ever see it. Being a Southerner, I think the view that the civil war was fought over states' rights is the romantic view. Anyway, the two really aren't mutually exclusive, it was both. And no, I don't define freedom in such a dumb way, why would I? P.S. Properly speaking, only individuals have rights. States do not have rights, neither does the federal government. Of course this was not understood fully by the Founding Fathers and it's also not true in a legal sense, only a moral one.
- taejo 12y ago
  The Mississippi declaration of secession states explicitly that it's about slavery: In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. (emphasis mine)

bbzealot 12y ago

My grandpa fought the WWII in the Italian Army. He told me that during war, they had to drink coffee with anise every day, and they were forced to do so. Of course it wasn't really just "coffee with anise", but it contained some kind of drug. He remembers that, after drinking that "coffee", he could see a dying fellow soldier calling for help, and just don't care about that. He was sent to war after a quick training lasted just a few weeks, and I guess that without taking some kind of drugs, the average 20 years old guy wouldn't be able to fight a war without going crazy.

stinos 12y ago
he could see a dying fellow soldier calling for help, and just don't care about that. Could be side effect of 'plain' amphetamines, which were used heavily by all sides in that war. Wouldn't be surprised at all if that or similar substances are still being used today: when not considering the disadvantages, it will make a person better at certain war-related tasks.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
justin66 12y ago
Sambuca's an eighty proof, anise-flavored liquor that's often used to make "caffè corretto." It's kind of a traditional Italian thing among some guys, although better made with espresso. Worth trying if you've never had it. I doubt he was being dosed with anything more exotic than that. (not to trivialize it: I wouldn't want to handle a gun after drinking that kind of alcohol) What your grandfather described, starting to not care about the suffering surrounding him, is a very natural and human thing.
- bbzealot 12y ago
  I don't think so. First of all, I'm quite sure sambuca was nowhere as popular as today back in the 40s. And I really doubt they would have been forced to drink coffee if it was just plain coffee (and I wouldn't see the point in forcing someone to drink coffee with... sambuca?). Finally, I don't think I could not care about a friend dying and calling for help near me, even if it was during war. I know my grandpa is not a 100% reliable source, after all we're talking about facts that happened 70 years ago, but I'm pretty sure this can be a true story.

keithpeter 12y ago

Muckets look interesting, especially the galvanised jug shaped ones. I remember seeing white enamel pots of similar shape used by workmen road mending and track mending - they brewed on a brazier cast iron with coke as fuel. I'm talking 60s in UK. Does anyone know the tricks used to 'settle' the grounds?

justincormack 12y ago
I have had "jug coffee", where you just let it settle. You dont want to grind it too fine. I don't recommend it really though, you still get some grounds.
- moron4hire 12y ago
  Meh, grounds ain't a big deal. I swirl the cup each time before I sip. Barely noticeable. And a bit extra fiber, or whatever.
mbubb 12y ago
My grandfather would put a piece of eggshell in to settle them - not sure how scientific that is... edit - found this http://blog.khymos.org/2010/08/04/norwegian-egg-coffee/ http://blog.khymos.org/2010/08/04/norwegian-egg-coffee/ "When looking into the chemistry behind this it isn’t as strange as it may sound. Fish skin as well as eggs contain proteins. The addition of proteins while preparing the coffee serves two purposes: 1) it helps the coffee grounds to flocculate, allowing them to sink faster to the bottom of the pot (this effect is probably more pronounced when using eggs) and 2) the proteins bind irreversibly to astringent and bitter tasting polyphenols in coffee to form insoluble complexes that will precipitate. The end result is a clearer coffee with a pleasant and mild taste. The bitterness is only barely noticeable, but the coffee still has enough “body” so it doesn’t feel too thin! "
- keithpeter 12y ago
  Interesting; fish scales are used to clear white wine of course (or were before industrial scale production). Thanks for that link

dasil003 12y ago

Ahhh! Enjoying this article over my morning cup.

smoyer 12y ago
I was grinding as I read the comments ... now to brew :)
- mbubb 12y ago
  heh - me too

barking 12y ago

For the British soldier, substitute tea or 'a brew' as it's referred to.

higherpurpose 12y ago

The part at the end especially, kind of makes me want to give up coffee. Seems too addicting, like it has too much control over us, and I don't like that.

keithpeter 12y ago
I do a week off tea, coffee and juices, just water, every now and again. Some headaches and discomfort day 1, usually fine and chipper by day 3 onwards. I'm on one strong large mug (two ordinary cups) of coffee and one or two teas a day normally. I don't have caffeinated soft drinks at all.
- AJ007 12y ago
  I have not seen evidence of any significant negative health effects from either tea of coffee. The positives would appear to be fairly high. Juice I avoid.

tim333 12y ago

Ah coffee. I wonder what percentage of coding is fuelled by coffee. Quite a lot I'd imagine.

gabemart 12y ago

I wonder about the relationship between caffeine and the near-universal spread of tea and coffee as hot beverages. I love tisanes, what are informally called herbal teas. I find it striking that there are literally hundreds of plants used to make herbal teas with an incredibly long history - mint, chamomile, dandelion, jasmine, red clover, elderflower, passion flower, hibiscus, etc. etc. But none of them have a tenth of one percent of the popularity of coffee or true tea. Many people who enjoy tea and coffee enjoy the effects of the caffeine. But I'm surprised at the scale of the difference between the popularity of caffeinated and non-caffeinated drinks.

backlava 12y ago
But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
- taejo 12y ago
  Tea and tisanes are to some extent substitute goods, so increased demand for tisanes lowers the price of tea in China ;)
  - JacobAldridge 12y ago
    I have few pleasures in life greater than finding a way to answer that question no matter what situation. Sadly, as a result, no-one ever asks me anymore. Thanks for the memories.
vertex-four 12y ago
Catnip herbal tea is also delicious, and extremely calming to a point that nothing else I've tried is, personally.
rdtsc 12y ago
No doubt. Caffeine in tea, especially green though, produces a wakefulness and alertness more than jitters that coffee produce. Tisanes are and were popular before coffee and teas spread. A lot of was part of the popular medicines. "Put in these plants in hot water and drink it" was very common. Not to forget about yerba mate, a caffeineted South American beverage. Very popular (check), not tea and not coffee (check), caffeinated (check). So yes it seems caffeine has a considerable effect in the spread of popularity.

oftenwrong 12y ago

I found a picture of the Antietam memorial depicting William McKinley delivering coffee: http://www.dispatch.com/content/graphics/2012/08/27/Antietam15.JPG http://www.dispatch.com/content/graphics/2012/08/27/Antietam...

mbubb 12y ago

This made me think of a great HN piece from a few weeks back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7921691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7921691 Balzac on pleasures and pains of coffee. A generation before the Civil War but interesting to see how coffee was used experimentally to spur creativity and production. He mentions other artists with similar experiments. To say we are addicted to coffee or tea is not just to talk of the dependence on caffeine but the whole set of rituals around it. It draws my attention and I love articles like this. I also love to learn how other people make tea or coffee (though I reserve the right to be very judgemental in that regard). Last week I sat down to watch a movie randomly picked from the Critereon Collection on Hulu. "Jeanne Dielman..." by Chantal Ackerman. Blew me away. 3.5 hours of very little action and a central scene where she does little more than make coffee Coincidentally I was sitting and reading this while grinding coffee. 2 morning rituals: HN and fresh ground coffee.

bane 12y ago
"Paul's coffee service, the fluted allow of silver and jasmium that he had inherited from Jamia, rested on a low table to her right. She stared at it, thinking of how many hands had touched that metal. Chani had served Paul from it within the month. What can his desert woman do for a Duke except serve him coffee? she asked herself. She brings him no power, no family." I always was fascinated by Herbert's use of coffee in Dune. A civilization so far removed from our own, by thousands of years and possibly light-years. Yet along with all the Dukes and Barons, you get coffee.