4 ms·

I think the American Dream has been inflated to mean "the American citizen gets everything s/he wants." hmmm, seems like whining. Look, the American Dream is a

I think the American Dream has been inflated to mean "the American citizen gets everything s/he wants." hmmm, seems like whining. Look, the American Dream is about being able to have a reasonable life, keep your family healthy and safe, be a free citizen, and work hard to earn your living. When did it get to be redefined as "I need a 80 inch TV, XBox, 4-wheel drive car, private education, cellphones, multiple DVRs, 3000 sq ft home, and no taxes and no responsibilities for my expenses, nanny for my kids, golf lessons, soccer, and three cars"? That attitude of entitlement is what is killing the American Dream, IMHO.

pessimizer 12y ago
Yet you feel entitled to redefine the American dream? This is the American dream: http://wthhistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/leave-it-to-beaver-house1.jpg http://wthhistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/leave-it-to-be...
- hyperliner 12y ago
  A sitcom?
hyperliner 12y ago
One more little thing: immigrants are coming here with $20 bucks to their name, washing cars, or driving them, or cleaning windows, or doing lawn, or being engineers, or whatever. They talk about the American Dream. $130k is an offensive number to call the Dream.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  Less offensive than an immigrant washing a car being called the American dream.
  - hyperliner 12y ago
    I did not call that scenario the American Dream, but it is a scenario of people fighting to achieve it.
  - inimini 12y ago
    If I went from washing cars in Bangladesh to washing cars in the US, I would call it my American Dream. For a lot of immigrants, simply being in the US is the American Dream. And as long as their quality of life keeps improving, the Dream lives on.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Look, the American Dream is about being able to have a reasonable life, keep your family healthy and safe, be a free citizen, and work hard to earn your living No, its always been about having two general things: (1) Experiencing continually improving material abundance by the standards of the time, and (2) Not being prevented by imposed class or other restrictions from being able to attain even greater material abundance with the scope of one's own ability. This has been pretty true even before the phrase "American Dream" for the concept was popularized in the early 20th Century, but was clearly attached to the original popularization of the term and to its use since then. It has never been as modest as you present it.
- tormeh 12y ago
  In fact, the American Dream is the opposite of modest.
  - hyperliner 12y ago
    I dont think "opposite" is the right word. It just means you have the opportunity to prosper based on talent and achievement. It never guaranteed prosperity individually.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > It just means you have the opportunity to prosper based on talent and achievement. No, it doesn't. From the earliest articulations, it involves both having wealth and having opportunity to further that wealth without barriers of class. > It never guaranteed prosperity individually. It doesn't guarantee anything, because its an common individual aspiration (hence the word "Dream" in "American Dream"), not a covenant.
    - hyperliner 12y ago
      having by working and achieving, not by being given
laurencerowe 12y ago
> When did it get to be redefined as "I need a ... private education" $2000/year per child is not a private education, that's consumables, school trips, maybe some educational activities during the 3 months of summer when public schools don't run. Child care would easily cost that per child per month if both parents are working.
carsongross 12y ago
Let's test that theory of yours. We'll halve the car expense to $6000 a year and drop all extra expenses (vacation, entertainment, eating out, cable/internet.) And let's drop our taxes by 50%, since we are earning less, and our savings entirely since, really, who saves anything anyway, right? My math pegs that right around 70k a year, or about 20k more than the median household income. Yeah, it's totally entitlement that's killing the american dream.

pessimizer 12y ago

Yet you feel entitled to redefine the American dream? This is the American dream: http://wthhistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/leave-it-to-beaver-house1.jpg http://wthhistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/leave-it-to-be...

hyperliner 12y ago
A sitcom?

hyperliner 12y ago

One more little thing: immigrants are coming here with $20 bucks to their name, washing cars, or driving them, or cleaning windows, or doing lawn, or being engineers, or whatever. They talk about the American Dream. $130k is an offensive number to call the Dream.

pessimizer 12y ago
Less offensive than an immigrant washing a car being called the American dream.
- hyperliner 12y ago
  I did not call that scenario the American Dream, but it is a scenario of people fighting to achieve it.
- inimini 12y ago
  If I went from washing cars in Bangladesh to washing cars in the US, I would call it my American Dream. For a lot of immigrants, simply being in the US is the American Dream. And as long as their quality of life keeps improving, the Dream lives on.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Look, the American Dream is about being able to have a reasonable life, keep your family healthy and safe, be a free citizen, and work hard to earn your living No, its always been about having two general things: (1) Experiencing continually improving material abundance by the standards of the time, and (2) Not being prevented by imposed class or other restrictions from being able to attain even greater material abundance with the scope of one's own ability. This has been pretty true even before the phrase "American Dream" for the concept was popularized in the early 20th Century, but was clearly attached to the original popularization of the term and to its use since then. It has never been as modest as you present it.

tormeh 12y ago
In fact, the American Dream is the opposite of modest.
- hyperliner 12y ago
  I dont think "opposite" is the right word. It just means you have the opportunity to prosper based on talent and achievement. It never guaranteed prosperity individually.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > It just means you have the opportunity to prosper based on talent and achievement. No, it doesn't. From the earliest articulations, it involves both having wealth and having opportunity to further that wealth without barriers of class. > It never guaranteed prosperity individually. It doesn't guarantee anything, because its an common individual aspiration (hence the word "Dream" in "American Dream"), not a covenant.
  - hyperliner 12y ago
    having by working and achieving, not by being given

laurencerowe 12y ago

> When did it get to be redefined as "I need a ... private education" $2000/year per child is not a private education, that's consumables, school trips, maybe some educational activities during the 3 months of summer when public schools don't run. Child care would easily cost that per child per month if both parents are working.

carsongross 12y ago

Let's test that theory of yours. We'll halve the car expense to $6000 a year and drop all extra expenses (vacation, entertainment, eating out, cable/internet.) And let's drop our taxes by 50%, since we are earning less, and our savings entirely since, really, who saves anything anyway, right? My math pegs that right around 70k a year, or about 20k more than the median household income. Yeah, it's totally entitlement that's killing the american dream.