4 ms·

Ridiculous Article. All the costs are exaggerated and padded.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
mgkimsal 12y ago
really? the 'essentials' seemed mostly reasonable to me - grew up in midwest, now living in the US 'south' (NC). Not much there struck me as way out of line. on the 'taxes' segment: most people won't owe $32k in taxes unless they're actually earning a high amount anyway, so it's sort of self-fulfilling - if you include $32k in taxes, then yes, you'll need to earn far more than that to pay those taxes. Not sure why 'cable/internet' are separate from 'entertainment'.
- BSousa 12y ago
  Well, when you put on a 4WD SUV as 'essential' and the payment/costs is approx. 65% of housing expenses, either the numbers are padded or someone doing that is a fucking idiot. 4k education expenses also seems excessive but I won't comment on that since I don't really know much about the US education system costs but apparel 2.6k? More than Utilities? WTF? That comes to around 200 dollars on apparel per month.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    Do you have a more realistic automobile for a family of four? IMO, it's more realistic to have two cars, because it usually takes two incomes to make 130K, and 275K houses aren't near good public transportation.
    - jmillikin 12y ago
      How about a car (or two)? Let the rich parents buy an SUV to haul the entire soccer team.
      - pessimizer 12y ago
        And that's going to cost you less than $900 a month, including insurance, repairs, and fuel?
        jmillikin 12y ago
        Yes, easily.
        phamilton 12y ago
        2013 Mazda 5, $333/month payment, $50/month for 2 tanks of gas, $80/month insurance, service averages less than $50/month. Total: ~ $500/month. Fits our family of 4 nicely.
    - BSousa 12y ago
      We are a family of 3, plan on another one soon. We have a Toyota Auris (Corolla over in the states). It will last us many more years (unless it fully breaks down) and it is more than enough. Sure, would it be nice to have more space for when vacation comes and need to bring a few more things, sure.. but not 1000 bucks per month worth. We are now a 1 car family, but when we had two, the other one was a 10 year old Toyota Yaris that whoever didn't had to drive our kid used to go to work/errands. As someone else in the thread mentioned, this isn't the "America Dream", this is the "I want shit and have fun dream".
    - eitally 12y ago
      I don't see why either a minivan or mini-mini (like the Mazda CX-5) or crossover (Toyota Highlander, Kia Sorento, Hyundai SantaFe) wouldn't be a good choice. I am living the proverbial American Dream and love our Odyssey to death. Guess what, though: it's not new (a 2008), and it costs nowhere near the article's projected annual cost, especially if you do your own oil/fluid changes. I drove a VW GTI and my wife had a Golf TDI when our first child was born and there was no conceivable way to fit his car seat rear-facing behind me, so we sold my GTI and bought a bigger vehicle. Minivans are awesome. :)
- jmillikin 12y ago
  The expenses for groceries and the car are far higher than what someone making $130k a year would pay. $12,659 per year on groceries works out to roughly $240 per week. While it is possible to reach that (e.g. by shopping exclusively at high-end specialty grocers and avoiding coupons), most families would pay far less. A family with access to a supermarket would probably spend around $80-$120 per week on groceries, or $4200-$6300 per year. The car expenses assume a very large fuel-hungry vehicle, and appear to assume the vehicle will be purchased on a high-interest loan. A five-seat sedan would work just as well, and would result in expenses of about $3000 per year ($10k amortized over a ten-year operating lifetime, plus $2k per year in fuel). Similar issues exist with the other large expenses. For example, the author's chosen goal for college savings is higher than the cost of a four-year degree at Stanford (according to the stanford.edu Net Price Calculator) and is far more than tuition costs at a normal school.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > A five-seat sedan would work just as well, and would result in expenses of about $3000 per year ($10k amortized over a ten-year operating lifetime, plus $2k per year in fuel). (1) automobile costs include more than amortized purchase costs and fuel (such as maintenance) -- especially if you are going to keep it operational for a decade. (2) what 5 seat sedan has a $10K new price? > For example, the author's chosen goal for college savings is higher than the cost of a four-year degree at Stanford (according to the stanford.edu Net Price Calculator) and is far more than tuition costs at a normal school. The savings target for college savings shouldn't be compared against the current cost, but against the expected cost at the time the student will be attending college.
    - jmillikin 12y ago
      > automobile costs include more than amortized purchase > costs and fuel (such as maintenance) For modern cars, maintenance is not a significant expense compared to the purchase price and fuel. Insurance is cheap if one's not driving an expensive truck. > what 5 seat sedan has a $10K new price? No need to buy new, let some other sucker eat the depreciation. A 3-4 year old Corolla (or equivalent) shouldn't cost more than $10k. > The savings target for college savings shouldn't be > compared against the current cost, but against the > expected cost at the time the student will be > attending college. Inflation isn't going to be a significant factor, since long-term savings are going to be placed in something like a TIPS bond. It is possible that the total cost will increase, but what are the chances it'll cost more for a regular school then than it does for a top-tier school now?
- BrandonY 12y ago
  That's not self-fulfilling. Add up all of the essentials without considering taxes. Figure out how much income it would take to pay for all of those things. Work out the amount of taxes that you would owe on that income. Add it to income. Of course, you now have to take into account this extra income and add that to the taxes, and you'll add that result to the total income, which'll need taxing, but this fortunately has a closed form solution, and we can quickly calculate a final number. At least I think other people could quickly calculate it.
- laurencerowe 12y ago
  > on the 'taxes' segment: most people won't owe $32k in taxes unless they're actually earning a high amount anyway, so it's sort of self-fulfilling - if you include $32k in taxes, then yes, you'll need to earn far more than that to pay those taxes. For the article they want to present a gross income figure, i.e. what salary do you need to afford the American Dream. The figure for taxes is simply the income tax due on a salary high enough to have an after-tax (net) income equal to the other expenditures. There's nothing funny or self-fulfilling about it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

really? the 'essentials' seemed mostly reasonable to me - grew up in midwest, now living in the US 'south' (NC). Not much there struck me as way out of line. on the 'taxes' segment: most people won't owe $32k in taxes unless they're actually earning a high amount anyway, so it's sort of self-fulfilling - if you include $32k in taxes, then yes, you'll need to earn far more than that to pay those taxes. Not sure why 'cable/internet' are separate from 'entertainment'.

BSousa 12y ago
Well, when you put on a 4WD SUV as 'essential' and the payment/costs is approx. 65% of housing expenses, either the numbers are padded or someone doing that is a fucking idiot. 4k education expenses also seems excessive but I won't comment on that since I don't really know much about the US education system costs but apparel 2.6k? More than Utilities? WTF? That comes to around 200 dollars on apparel per month.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  Do you have a more realistic automobile for a family of four? IMO, it's more realistic to have two cars, because it usually takes two incomes to make 130K, and 275K houses aren't near good public transportation.
  - jmillikin 12y ago
    How about a car (or two)? Let the rich parents buy an SUV to haul the entire soccer team.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      And that's going to cost you less than $900 a month, including insurance, repairs, and fuel?
      - jmillikin 12y ago
        Yes, easily.
      - phamilton 12y ago
        2013 Mazda 5, $333/month payment, $50/month for 2 tanks of gas, $80/month insurance, service averages less than $50/month. Total: ~ $500/month. Fits our family of 4 nicely.
  - BSousa 12y ago
    We are a family of 3, plan on another one soon. We have a Toyota Auris (Corolla over in the states). It will last us many more years (unless it fully breaks down) and it is more than enough. Sure, would it be nice to have more space for when vacation comes and need to bring a few more things, sure.. but not 1000 bucks per month worth. We are now a 1 car family, but when we had two, the other one was a 10 year old Toyota Yaris that whoever didn't had to drive our kid used to go to work/errands. As someone else in the thread mentioned, this isn't the "America Dream", this is the "I want shit and have fun dream".
  - eitally 12y ago
    I don't see why either a minivan or mini-mini (like the Mazda CX-5) or crossover (Toyota Highlander, Kia Sorento, Hyundai SantaFe) wouldn't be a good choice. I am living the proverbial American Dream and love our Odyssey to death. Guess what, though: it's not new (a 2008), and it costs nowhere near the article's projected annual cost, especially if you do your own oil/fluid changes. I drove a VW GTI and my wife had a Golf TDI when our first child was born and there was no conceivable way to fit his car seat rear-facing behind me, so we sold my GTI and bought a bigger vehicle. Minivans are awesome. :)
jmillikin 12y ago
The expenses for groceries and the car are far higher than what someone making $130k a year would pay. $12,659 per year on groceries works out to roughly $240 per week. While it is possible to reach that (e.g. by shopping exclusively at high-end specialty grocers and avoiding coupons), most families would pay far less. A family with access to a supermarket would probably spend around $80-$120 per week on groceries, or $4200-$6300 per year. The car expenses assume a very large fuel-hungry vehicle, and appear to assume the vehicle will be purchased on a high-interest loan. A five-seat sedan would work just as well, and would result in expenses of about $3000 per year ($10k amortized over a ten-year operating lifetime, plus $2k per year in fuel). Similar issues exist with the other large expenses. For example, the author's chosen goal for college savings is higher than the cost of a four-year degree at Stanford (according to the stanford.edu Net Price Calculator) and is far more than tuition costs at a normal school.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > A five-seat sedan would work just as well, and would result in expenses of about $3000 per year ($10k amortized over a ten-year operating lifetime, plus $2k per year in fuel). (1) automobile costs include more than amortized purchase costs and fuel (such as maintenance) -- especially if you are going to keep it operational for a decade. (2) what 5 seat sedan has a $10K new price? > For example, the author's chosen goal for college savings is higher than the cost of a four-year degree at Stanford (according to the stanford.edu Net Price Calculator) and is far more than tuition costs at a normal school. The savings target for college savings shouldn't be compared against the current cost, but against the expected cost at the time the student will be attending college.
  - jmillikin 12y ago
    > automobile costs include more than amortized purchase > costs and fuel (such as maintenance) For modern cars, maintenance is not a significant expense compared to the purchase price and fuel. Insurance is cheap if one's not driving an expensive truck. > what 5 seat sedan has a $10K new price? No need to buy new, let some other sucker eat the depreciation. A 3-4 year old Corolla (or equivalent) shouldn't cost more than $10k. > The savings target for college savings shouldn't be > compared against the current cost, but against the > expected cost at the time the student will be > attending college. Inflation isn't going to be a significant factor, since long-term savings are going to be placed in something like a TIPS bond. It is possible that the total cost will increase, but what are the chances it'll cost more for a regular school then than it does for a top-tier school now?
BrandonY 12y ago
That's not self-fulfilling. Add up all of the essentials without considering taxes. Figure out how much income it would take to pay for all of those things. Work out the amount of taxes that you would owe on that income. Add it to income. Of course, you now have to take into account this extra income and add that to the taxes, and you'll add that result to the total income, which'll need taxing, but this fortunately has a closed form solution, and we can quickly calculate a final number. At least I think other people could quickly calculate it.
laurencerowe 12y ago
> on the 'taxes' segment: most people won't owe $32k in taxes unless they're actually earning a high amount anyway, so it's sort of self-fulfilling - if you include $32k in taxes, then yes, you'll need to earn far more than that to pay those taxes. For the article they want to present a gross income figure, i.e. what salary do you need to afford the American Dream. The figure for taxes is simply the income tax due on a salary high enough to have an after-tax (net) income equal to the other expenditures. There's nothing funny or self-fulfilling about it.