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It's somewhat troubling that this top-rated comment and all its children assume this can only be a false accusation. I can only assume that this is the case wi

by mef 12y ago

It's somewhat troubling that this top-rated comment and all its children assume this can only be a false accusation. I can only assume that this is the case with many rape accusations, especially those from years ago, though what limited research there is suggests false rape accusations are rare (2-8%). The horrible part about it is that when an accusation like this is made, either one person or the other will potentially have their life destroyed, but the alternatives for both parties are also horrible: for the victim to stay silent, or for the falsely accused to not defend themselves.

purringmeow 12y ago
False allegations are far from being rare. You also have to acknowledge that when you have a rape accusation, there isn't a boolean result(either the allegation is false, or it's true, meaning there was rape). It's a broad spectrum, with only around a third of the cases resulting in conviction.[1] As far as I understand, only if there wasn't a sexual contact will the allegation be considered false. In other cases, there will be some sort of investigation. So, it's possible to have basis for allegation and NOT have rape. Correct me if I am wrong though. --- Of the 136 cases of sexual assault 8 (5.9%) were coded as false reports, 61 (44.9%) did not proceed to any prosecution or disciplinary action, 48 (35.3%) were referred for prosecution or disciplinary action, and 19 (13.9%) contained insufficient information to be coded (see Table 2). [1]http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegati...
- chipotle_coyote 12y ago
  "False allegations are far from being rare." "Of the 136 cases of sexual assault (5.9%) were coded as false reports..." I grant rare is subjective, but doesn't that statistic say that only 1 in 17 of the reports in the study you're citing were found to be false? I get what you're saying about "not boolean," but the handout on false allegations from that conference you linked to (your link doesn't work, but if you take the first part of "http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/" http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/" you get the full schedule) says, "when more methodologically rigorous research has been conducted, estimates for the percentage of false reports begin to converge around 2-8%." I don't see anything that suggests the allegation is only false if there wasn't sexual contact, either. "The determination that a report is false can then only be made when there is sufficient evidence to establish that the sexual assault did not happen (was not completed or attempted). This does not mean that the investigation failed to prove that the sexual assault happened--in that case the investigation would simply be inconclusive or unsubstantiated. It also does not mean that the suspect was unable to successfully complete the sexual assault--this would be an attempted sexual assault and/or some other sexual offense." (I should note I'm not taking any position on the allegation against Max Temkin here.)
  - spindritf 12y ago
    I think you missed purringmeow's point. Yes, 6% of cases were determined to be false reports but how many of the remaining 60% were also false reports and we simply don't know?
    - mijoharas 12y ago
      what remaining 60%?
      - shkkmo 12y ago
        I assume the 60% is: (44.9%) did not proceed to any prosecution or disciplinary action (13.9%) contained insufficient information to be coded
mistermann 12y ago
From the article: > That is my rapist. Having his face pop up on my news feed unexpectedly in any context has the capacity to ruin my day. Seeing him praised in the press is giving me a panic attack. This is classic SJW (Social Justice Warrior) / Tumblr language. Many within this community genuinely believe a man is raping a woman literally by only looking at her. No, this is not a joke. For some representative examples of how insane those within this movement are, there are plenty of examples posted on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction I don't doubt this girl genuinely believes she was raped, but I'm quite confident her definition of rape is vastly different than the mainstream definition.
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  Twitter/tumblr social justice warriors are a small, loud, and uniquely disturbed group who are only relevant in a discussion of how small, loud groups tend to be taken as representative of majorities.
  - alextgordon 12y ago
    They're quite an influential group, case in point: Suey Park.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - mkr-hn 12y ago
      Last I checked, she hasn't converted any of the thunder into lightning.
  - mistermann 12y ago
    If she is one, and she imagined the rape, I would consider that relevant.
- ponytail 12y ago
  What a terrible thing to say. What she wrote sounds like classic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have PTSD myself and this is exactly the kind of thing that triggers it. As for the Cards against Humanity game, let that be "exhibit A".
tomjen3 12y ago
If it had been the truth she should have reported him back in college, when there were evidence and witnesses. Years after the fact? Yeah that is not really believable. Also I am going to have to see the research methods that allowed them to come up with that number of false rape accusations, since I doubt it is possible to come up with a real number.
- icebraining 12y ago
  Your lack of compassion is disturbing. Regardless of the current case, which I certainly don't have enough information to comment on, in general rape often inflicts a terrible psychological damage on the victim. And since the rapists are often close to the victim, the act very often doesn't have any witnesses or clear evidence, especially if they were romantically involved. And despite what some people might believe in their minds, accusing someone of rape doesn't get the town to behind you and the rapist locked up. True victims will be disbelieved, insulted and treated as "damaged goods". Again, I don't know anything about this case. I don't know if he did anything wrong. But your assumption is disgustingly ignorant.
peterwwillis 12y ago
> though what limited research there is suggests false rape accusations are rare (2-8%). Incorrect. You're quoting the FBI statistics, but there have been several studies done over the years, later reviewed by Philip N.S. Rumney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney... Rumney took together all the data he could find about false accusations, and studies of false accusations. He researched the information used in the studies, the methods used to obtain said information, and their findings. The result: a varyance of between 1% and 90% in terms of what was considered a false accusation, with a mean/median of about 20% over the findings in all the studies. His conclusion, however, was that these studies varied so much (and their information and means of retrieval so inconclusive) that it is impossible to know what an accurate rate of false accusations is. So the numbers you're quoting are, statistically speaking, worthless. I suggest reading the studies and their sources before merely repeating the numbers that validate your point.

by mef 12y ago

purringmeow 12y ago

False allegations are far from being rare. You also have to acknowledge that when you have a rape accusation, there isn't a boolean result(either the allegation is false, or it's true, meaning there was rape). It's a broad spectrum, with only around a third of the cases resulting in conviction.[1] As far as I understand, only if there wasn't a sexual contact will the allegation be considered false. In other cases, there will be some sort of investigation. So, it's possible to have basis for allegation and NOT have rape. Correct me if I am wrong though. --- Of the 136 cases of sexual assault 8 (5.9%) were coded as false reports, 61 (44.9%) did not proceed to any prosecution or disciplinary action, 48 (35.3%) were referred for prosecution or disciplinary action, and 19 (13.9%) contained insufficient information to be coded (see Table 2). [1]http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegati...

chipotle_coyote 12y ago
"False allegations are far from being rare." "Of the 136 cases of sexual assault (5.9%) were coded as false reports..." I grant rare is subjective, but doesn't that statistic say that only 1 in 17 of the reports in the study you're citing were found to be false? I get what you're saying about "not boolean," but the handout on false allegations from that conference you linked to (your link doesn't work, but if you take the first part of "http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/" http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/" you get the full schedule) says, "when more methodologically rigorous research has been conducted, estimates for the percentage of false reports begin to converge around 2-8%." I don't see anything that suggests the allegation is only false if there wasn't sexual contact, either. "The determination that a report is false can then only be made when there is sufficient evidence to establish that the sexual assault did not happen (was not completed or attempted). This does not mean that the investigation failed to prove that the sexual assault happened--in that case the investigation would simply be inconclusive or unsubstantiated. It also does not mean that the suspect was unable to successfully complete the sexual assault--this would be an attempted sexual assault and/or some other sexual offense." (I should note I'm not taking any position on the allegation against Max Temkin here.)
- spindritf 12y ago
  I think you missed purringmeow's point. Yes, 6% of cases were determined to be false reports but how many of the remaining 60% were also false reports and we simply don't know?
  - mijoharas 12y ago
    what remaining 60%?
    - shkkmo 12y ago
      I assume the 60% is: (44.9%) did not proceed to any prosecution or disciplinary action (13.9%) contained insufficient information to be coded

mistermann 12y ago

From the article: > That is my rapist. Having his face pop up on my news feed unexpectedly in any context has the capacity to ruin my day. Seeing him praised in the press is giving me a panic attack. This is classic SJW (Social Justice Warrior) / Tumblr language. Many within this community genuinely believe a man is raping a woman literally by only looking at her. No, this is not a joke. For some representative examples of how insane those within this movement are, there are plenty of examples posted on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction I don't doubt this girl genuinely believes she was raped, but I'm quite confident her definition of rape is vastly different than the mainstream definition.

mkr-hn 12y ago
Twitter/tumblr social justice warriors are a small, loud, and uniquely disturbed group who are only relevant in a discussion of how small, loud groups tend to be taken as representative of majorities.
- alextgordon 12y ago
  They're quite an influential group, case in point: Suey Park.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - mkr-hn 12y ago
    Last I checked, she hasn't converted any of the thunder into lightning.
- mistermann 12y ago
  If she is one, and she imagined the rape, I would consider that relevant.
ponytail 12y ago
What a terrible thing to say. What she wrote sounds like classic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have PTSD myself and this is exactly the kind of thing that triggers it. As for the Cards against Humanity game, let that be "exhibit A".

tomjen3 12y ago

If it had been the truth she should have reported him back in college, when there were evidence and witnesses. Years after the fact? Yeah that is not really believable. Also I am going to have to see the research methods that allowed them to come up with that number of false rape accusations, since I doubt it is possible to come up with a real number.

icebraining 12y ago
Your lack of compassion is disturbing. Regardless of the current case, which I certainly don't have enough information to comment on, in general rape often inflicts a terrible psychological damage on the victim. And since the rapists are often close to the victim, the act very often doesn't have any witnesses or clear evidence, especially if they were romantically involved. And despite what some people might believe in their minds, accusing someone of rape doesn't get the town to behind you and the rapist locked up. True victims will be disbelieved, insulted and treated as "damaged goods". Again, I don't know anything about this case. I don't know if he did anything wrong. But your assumption is disgustingly ignorant.

peterwwillis 12y ago

> though what limited research there is suggests false rape accusations are rare (2-8%). Incorrect. You're quoting the FBI statistics, but there have been several studies done over the years, later reviewed by Philip N.S. Rumney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney... Rumney took together all the data he could find about false accusations, and studies of false accusations. He researched the information used in the studies, the methods used to obtain said information, and their findings. The result: a varyance of between 1% and 90% in terms of what was considered a false accusation, with a mean/median of about 20% over the findings in all the studies. His conclusion, however, was that these studies varied so much (and their information and means of retrieval so inconclusive) that it is impossible to know what an accurate rate of false accusations is. So the numbers you're quoting are, statistically speaking, worthless. I suggest reading the studies and their sources before merely repeating the numbers that validate your point.