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Yes, not only space, but also limited hardware. U5 was the last Ultima that still ran on 64kb of memory -- of course with several floppy discs to swap (a second

Yes, not only space, but also limited hardware. U5 was the last Ultima that still ran on 64kb of memory -- of course with several floppy discs to swap (a second floppy drive was a big advantage for that game) -- I think, there where 6 or 8 of them, but you had to swap mainly two (overworld and town disc). It was the genius of that time, that a game of that size could fit into such limited hardware (64kB RAM, no HDD, only Floppy drives with 180kB size limit, <1MHz clock with unbelievable slow 8bit processor (I guess, today they sell such stuff as a smartcard "SOC" -- but of course with out the Floppy drive -- even the processors on SD-Cards are faster today, I guess) [Specs from the C64 version, but there existed versions at least also for Apple II with similar specs (It could even be, that it ran on Apple II with only 48kB) -- and (later?) of course for IBM PC]. U4 was technically similar to U5 (also several discs to swap and a big world on limited RAM), U5 did just drove the concept to the technical (and swapping-endurance-) limits. I think, they doubled the disc number (and so the content, I think 4->8 discs), improved the combat system (I liked the U5 combat system the most from all Ultimas I know) and made a new story, that showed the other side of "righteous" living. Even, when I never found the time, to finish U5, for me it is still the best of all time.

chipsy 12y ago
To be a bit of a pedant, there was a C64 port of Ultima 6, the only version of the game that ran on 8-bit hardware. [0] But it's essentially unplayable due to the technical limitations, as you've outlined. To quote one Youtube comment: "You would take two steps and data would load from the disk. Talk to someone, more loading. Walk a bit more, more loading. Dragged too much." [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM
- PythonicAlpha 12y ago
  Ok, my information was, that U6 was released on IBM PC and the developers did not support older (8bit) HW any more. Was this an official port? I tried to play U6 much later, but I hated the new controls, as much I remember.
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    There were no (authorized) 8-bit ports of Ultima VI at all, unless EA licensed the name to an outside developer as a platform license of some kind. We got as far as building the U6 world editor on our Apples, but it's not a good sign when your content looks lame and outdated at the start of a long game project. The performance gap between PCs and the 8-bit platforms was just too great. 20 MHz 386 systems with 256-color graphics were shipping by that point, and that meant that no art assets could have been shared between a contemporary PC title and an 8-bit version of the same title. Any attempt at creating an Ultima VI on an Apple or C64 would have resulted in a very different game. Nobody was happy about leaving the Apple II behind, but we got over it in a hurry. EDIT: Holy cow, I looked at the YouTube link and somebody actually did greenlight a C64 port, it looks like. Utter insanity, I can't believe that happened!
    - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
      Yeah, they basically ginned up a half-finished alpha, realized it was impossible to complete, and then fucking shipped it anyway. Not a pleasant birthday present for a twelve-year-old boy who had idolized Richard Garriott up 'til then.
      - CamperBob2 12y ago
        Sorry to hear that, seriously. About all I can guess is that they were so desperate for cash that they were making some really bad judgment calls. This would have been just prior to the EA buyout, I imagine. (I'd left by then.) The C64 port of Ultima V almost drove the guy who did it into a rubber room, and he was an extremely sharp guy. I just can't believe anybody thought it was a good idea to put U6 on an 8-bit computer in 1990, or to ship the result to paying customers. If it weren't for that video, I would have said chipsy was smoking crack.
  - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
    It was an official release, but it was a piece of shit. It was ugly, buggy as hell, missing major gameplay features, and had no sound whatsoever. Not only was it constantly grinding the floppy drive, but it came on four double-sided disks, and--just for example--the conversations were on a different disk than the towns, so every time you tried to talk to someone, you had to switch disks, wait 30 seconds, and then reverse the process when done. Sometimes, you would drop an item and it would turn into a wall square, permanently. Sometimes a stack of items--ammo, potions--would stop decrementing when you removed one but keep incrementing when you added one, which sounds great except that U6 had encumbrance, so you wound up unable to carry anything but 60 pounds of potions. If, say, you fired a bow at an enemy four squares to the northeast, instead of animating an arrow flying at them, it would animate a bow taking four steps north, then four steps east. Ground hazards (bear traps and lava) proced every time you moved the cursor, so you could kill anything in one round by tossing a bear trap under them, wiggling the joystick for a while, and then ending your turn so the game would notice they were dead. Sometimes the game wouldn't actually notice when a PC was supposed to be dead--the whole party could splash around happily in lava as their HP went further and further negative. I had been a huge Ultima fanboy up 'til then, but that was the last one I ever played. Twelve-year-old me felt seriously betrayed. They should never have shipped the C64 version.
CamperBob2 12y ago
Speaking of memory issues, I could've sworn that the Apple version of U5 required a 128KB //e. I just went and checked the box on my shelf, and you're right, it only required 64KB. It's a memory issue -- with my memory -- because I probably wrote about 50% of the code in question. :-P It's cool to see that people are still enjoying it, though!
- talloaktrees 12y ago
  I would read a blog post about your experiences.
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    It would be about as exciting as any other programmer's blog, I'm afraid. This guy's other blog entries on Ultima and the history of 8-bit RPGs in general are outstanding -- see http://www.filfre.net/tag/garriott/ http://www.filfre.net/tag/garriott/ for a lot of fun background details. I'd recommend reading his stuff instead. :) One correction I'd offer: Richard never received a letter accusing him of being a "Satanic Perverter of America's Youth," at least not in so many words. That particular sobriquet was mine, after he made the mistake of letting his car windows get a bit too dirty. It was hilarious at the time... but I 'fessed up pretty quickly because he was either genuinely mortified, or doing a great job of acting like it.

chipsy 12y ago

To be a bit of a pedant, there was a C64 port of Ultima 6, the only version of the game that ran on 8-bit hardware. [0] But it's essentially unplayable due to the technical limitations, as you've outlined. To quote one Youtube comment: "You would take two steps and data would load from the disk. Talk to someone, more loading. Walk a bit more, more loading. Dragged too much." [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM

PythonicAlpha 12y ago
Ok, my information was, that U6 was released on IBM PC and the developers did not support older (8bit) HW any more. Was this an official port? I tried to play U6 much later, but I hated the new controls, as much I remember.
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  There were no (authorized) 8-bit ports of Ultima VI at all, unless EA licensed the name to an outside developer as a platform license of some kind. We got as far as building the U6 world editor on our Apples, but it's not a good sign when your content looks lame and outdated at the start of a long game project. The performance gap between PCs and the 8-bit platforms was just too great. 20 MHz 386 systems with 256-color graphics were shipping by that point, and that meant that no art assets could have been shared between a contemporary PC title and an 8-bit version of the same title. Any attempt at creating an Ultima VI on an Apple or C64 would have resulted in a very different game. Nobody was happy about leaving the Apple II behind, but we got over it in a hurry. EDIT: Holy cow, I looked at the YouTube link and somebody actually did greenlight a C64 port, it looks like. Utter insanity, I can't believe that happened!
  - PhasmaFelis 12y ago
    Yeah, they basically ginned up a half-finished alpha, realized it was impossible to complete, and then fucking shipped it anyway. Not a pleasant birthday present for a twelve-year-old boy who had idolized Richard Garriott up 'til then.
    - CamperBob2 12y ago
      Sorry to hear that, seriously. About all I can guess is that they were so desperate for cash that they were making some really bad judgment calls. This would have been just prior to the EA buyout, I imagine. (I'd left by then.) The C64 port of Ultima V almost drove the guy who did it into a rubber room, and he was an extremely sharp guy. I just can't believe anybody thought it was a good idea to put U6 on an 8-bit computer in 1990, or to ship the result to paying customers. If it weren't for that video, I would have said chipsy was smoking crack.
- PhasmaFelis 12y ago
  It was an official release, but it was a piece of shit. It was ugly, buggy as hell, missing major gameplay features, and had no sound whatsoever. Not only was it constantly grinding the floppy drive, but it came on four double-sided disks, and--just for example--the conversations were on a different disk than the towns, so every time you tried to talk to someone, you had to switch disks, wait 30 seconds, and then reverse the process when done. Sometimes, you would drop an item and it would turn into a wall square, permanently. Sometimes a stack of items--ammo, potions--would stop decrementing when you removed one but keep incrementing when you added one, which sounds great except that U6 had encumbrance, so you wound up unable to carry anything but 60 pounds of potions. If, say, you fired a bow at an enemy four squares to the northeast, instead of animating an arrow flying at them, it would animate a bow taking four steps north, then four steps east. Ground hazards (bear traps and lava) proced every time you moved the cursor, so you could kill anything in one round by tossing a bear trap under them, wiggling the joystick for a while, and then ending your turn so the game would notice they were dead. Sometimes the game wouldn't actually notice when a PC was supposed to be dead--the whole party could splash around happily in lava as their HP went further and further negative. I had been a huge Ultima fanboy up 'til then, but that was the last one I ever played. Twelve-year-old me felt seriously betrayed. They should never have shipped the C64 version.

CamperBob2 12y ago

Speaking of memory issues, I could've sworn that the Apple version of U5 required a 128KB //e. I just went and checked the box on my shelf, and you're right, it only required 64KB. It's a memory issue -- with my memory -- because I probably wrote about 50% of the code in question. :-P It's cool to see that people are still enjoying it, though!

talloaktrees 12y ago
I would read a blog post about your experiences.
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  It would be about as exciting as any other programmer's blog, I'm afraid. This guy's other blog entries on Ultima and the history of 8-bit RPGs in general are outstanding -- see http://www.filfre.net/tag/garriott/ http://www.filfre.net/tag/garriott/ for a lot of fun background details. I'd recommend reading his stuff instead. :) One correction I'd offer: Richard never received a letter accusing him of being a "Satanic Perverter of America's Youth," at least not in so many words. That particular sobriquet was mine, after he made the mistake of letting his car windows get a bit too dirty. It was hilarious at the time... but I 'fessed up pretty quickly because he was either genuinely mortified, or doing a great job of acting like it.