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I'm going through all the Ultimas now. (Currently on U5 but I've been busy for a few weeks.) The sense of world-building is the series is fascinating. With a

I'm going through all the Ultimas now. (Currently on U5 but I've been busy for a few weeks.) The sense of world-building is the series is fascinating. With a minimal amount of space a wide world was developed and it feels to persist a lot more than in any modern game, where a bunch of spaz happens and then the game is over. I'm not sure if having to write down notes in a notebook is something beneficial to game play, or just a limitation we had to live with. In a modern game you don't have to remember shit. If Joe tells you to ask Bob, you get a Quest Item reminding you to see Bob, and Bob has an exclamation point over his head to remind you to go to him. (About the article: it bugs me when people alphabetize the virtues instead of the proper order of HCVJSHSH. ;> )

rstupek 12y ago
Where did you get your copies of the games?
- unspecified 12y ago
  Ultima 4+5+6 is on gog.com for $6: http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_456 http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_456 Windows and OSX, how about that? edit: Just 4 by itself is free! http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_4 http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_4
  - danielweber 12y ago
    GOG periodically has sales for the entire Ultima milieu in one big bunch.
mratzloff 12y ago
> I'm going through all the Ultimas now. Same here! I've loved the series since I was younger. GOG.com is the best place to get them online, and even though I own physical copies I've purchased most of them from there. One caveat: for the earlier Ultimas, I highly recommend going through the pain of installing fan-made patches that add the Apple II music to many of the DOS versions, upgrade the graphics to VGA, fix bugs, and so on: http://ultimacodex.com/2012/04/patches-updates-for-the-gog-com-ultima-releases-2/ http://ultimacodex.com/2012/04/patches-updates-for-the-gog-c... With the MIDI patches, I'm able to play music for the early Ultimas through my Roland MT-32. :-) You should also take a look at the xu4 project (open source game engine using the original resources: http://xu4.sourceforge.net http://xu4.sourceforge.net) and LairWare's Mac-only version of Ultima III (http://www.lairware.com/ultima3/ http://www.lairware.com/ultima3/). Responding to the article in particular, as much as Ultima VIII is reviled for its gameplay, I do enjoy the idea of turning the idea of virtue on its head: how do you continue as the Avatar (meaning, the literal embodiment of virtue) in a world where you have to do bad things for good reasons?
PythonicAlpha 12y ago
Yes, not only space, but also limited hardware. U5 was the last Ultima that still ran on 64kb of memory -- of course with several floppy discs to swap (a second floppy drive was a big advantage for that game) -- I think, there where 6 or 8 of them, but you had to swap mainly two (overworld and town disc). It was the genius of that time, that a game of that size could fit into such limited hardware (64kB RAM, no HDD, only Floppy drives with 180kB size limit, <1MHz clock with unbelievable slow 8bit processor (I guess, today they sell such stuff as a smartcard "SOC" -- but of course with out the Floppy drive -- even the processors on SD-Cards are faster today, I guess) [Specs from the C64 version, but there existed versions at least also for Apple II with similar specs (It could even be, that it ran on Apple II with only 48kB) -- and (later?) of course for IBM PC]. U4 was technically similar to U5 (also several discs to swap and a big world on limited RAM), U5 did just drove the concept to the technical (and swapping-endurance-) limits. I think, they doubled the disc number (and so the content, I think 4->8 discs), improved the combat system (I liked the U5 combat system the most from all Ultimas I know) and made a new story, that showed the other side of "righteous" living. Even, when I never found the time, to finish U5, for me it is still the best of all time.
- chipsy 12y ago
  To be a bit of a pedant, there was a C64 port of Ultima 6, the only version of the game that ran on 8-bit hardware. [0] But it's essentially unplayable due to the technical limitations, as you've outlined. To quote one Youtube comment: "You would take two steps and data would load from the disk. Talk to someone, more loading. Walk a bit more, more loading. Dragged too much." [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM
  - PythonicAlpha 12y ago
    Ok, my information was, that U6 was released on IBM PC and the developers did not support older (8bit) HW any more. Was this an official port? I tried to play U6 much later, but I hated the new controls, as much I remember.
    - 12y ago
frost_knight 12y ago
Have you heard of or tried Ultima V: Lazarus? It's a fantastic total conversion of Ultima V using the Dungeon Siege engine. It requires that you have Dungeon Siege or Legends of Aranna installed (won't work with Dungeon Siege 2). The (almost) complete Ultima V with extra sidequests and the option of becoming an evil Avatar. It's one of the best game mods I've ever played. I believe Richard Garriott himself gave Team Lazarus a big huzzah. some things from the original U5 couldn't be implemented in the DS engine. The blink spell had to be cut, for example. http://u5lazarus.com/ http://u5lazarus.com/
- danielweber 12y ago
  Not yet; I'm not finished tearing Ultima 5 to pieces and decoding every single thing about it. ;) After that, Lazarus, and then U6, which I've never played. It will be interesting to see how a fresh play of an Ultima game goes for me at this stage in my life.
samstave 12y ago
Have you played any of "The Bard's Tale" -- We had EXTENSIVE notebooks and maps from that game, much more than in Ultima. I think BT4 was the hardest, if I recall -- and the walkthrough books were also hard for us to get back then and both reviled and revered. If your doing nostalgia marathons, try that series as well.
- bmurphy1976 12y ago
  I played Bard's Tale III Thief of Fate for HOURS and HOURS when I was younger. I didn't understand the concept of grinding back then, so I never made much progress beyond the 3rd world (there were 8 if I remember correctly). Mostly because I kept getting into trouble by not building my characters up enough to be strong enough to tackle the next section. I had this idea in my mind for the longest time that I would go back and try to replay that game with what I know now and see how much better I could be at it. So I tried, and you know what? The game is fucking terrible. It's nearly unplayable. It's tedious, the graphics suck, the sound sucks, the interface sucks, the combat sucks. It does not hold up. I can't believe I spent weeks of my childhood playing this garbage. On the other hand, Ultima VI and Ultima VII are as good as the day they came out.
  - samstave 12y ago
    HAHA, thanks for that - My memory is completely clouded in 7th grader nostalgia... so I appreciate you having a much mre recent objective look at the game :) I recall having a blast in bards tale, and memorizing the exact arrow keys to get from town to dungeon entrance without even looking at the screen. I recall dutifully mapping out all dungeons on graph paper.
- __david__ 12y ago
  I played a ton of Bards Tale 1 on my Apple 2. I don't think I ever passed it, though. For me, after seeing Bard's Tale I could never get into Ultima--the 2d top down graphics were just too poor compared to Bard's Tale's 3d view of the towns and dungeons. And I definitely remember mapping out all the dungeons and Skara Brae on graph paper. Eventually I borrowed the hint book from a classmate and photocopied the whole thing. Later, when my friends were playing Ultima V, I was playing Dungeon Master on my Amiga. I just couldn't get over the graphical difference. I never understood Ultima...
darklajid 12y ago
I got hooked on TSW [1] recently. Two years old it should count as a modern game where you probably need to take notes quite a bit. People playing can hand out "play for 72 hours" invitations. If you are interested, let me know. 1: The Secret World, in the MMORPG genre with.. attitude and interesting ideas
xipho 12y ago
But did you start with Akalabeth?
- danielweber 12y ago
  No, it wasn't in the package. :(
  - mratzloff 12y ago
    They have a version available for iOS. It's just a simple BASIC game that evolved into Ultima I (also written in BASIC, with some Assembly).

rstupek 12y ago

Where did you get your copies of the games?

unspecified 12y ago
Ultima 4+5+6 is on gog.com for $6: http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_456 http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_456 Windows and OSX, how about that? edit: Just 4 by itself is free! http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_4 http://www.gog.com/game/ultima_4
- danielweber 12y ago
  GOG periodically has sales for the entire Ultima milieu in one big bunch.

mratzloff 12y ago

> I'm going through all the Ultimas now. Same here! I've loved the series since I was younger. GOG.com is the best place to get them online, and even though I own physical copies I've purchased most of them from there. One caveat: for the earlier Ultimas, I highly recommend going through the pain of installing fan-made patches that add the Apple II music to many of the DOS versions, upgrade the graphics to VGA, fix bugs, and so on: http://ultimacodex.com/2012/04/patches-updates-for-the-gog-com-ultima-releases-2/ http://ultimacodex.com/2012/04/patches-updates-for-the-gog-c... With the MIDI patches, I'm able to play music for the early Ultimas through my Roland MT-32. :-) You should also take a look at the xu4 project (open source game engine using the original resources: http://xu4.sourceforge.net http://xu4.sourceforge.net) and LairWare's Mac-only version of Ultima III (http://www.lairware.com/ultima3/ http://www.lairware.com/ultima3/). Responding to the article in particular, as much as Ultima VIII is reviled for its gameplay, I do enjoy the idea of turning the idea of virtue on its head: how do you continue as the Avatar (meaning, the literal embodiment of virtue) in a world where you have to do bad things for good reasons?

PythonicAlpha 12y ago

Yes, not only space, but also limited hardware. U5 was the last Ultima that still ran on 64kb of memory -- of course with several floppy discs to swap (a second floppy drive was a big advantage for that game) -- I think, there where 6 or 8 of them, but you had to swap mainly two (overworld and town disc). It was the genius of that time, that a game of that size could fit into such limited hardware (64kB RAM, no HDD, only Floppy drives with 180kB size limit, <1MHz clock with unbelievable slow 8bit processor (I guess, today they sell such stuff as a smartcard "SOC" -- but of course with out the Floppy drive -- even the processors on SD-Cards are faster today, I guess) [Specs from the C64 version, but there existed versions at least also for Apple II with similar specs (It could even be, that it ran on Apple II with only 48kB) -- and (later?) of course for IBM PC]. U4 was technically similar to U5 (also several discs to swap and a big world on limited RAM), U5 did just drove the concept to the technical (and swapping-endurance-) limits. I think, they doubled the disc number (and so the content, I think 4->8 discs), improved the combat system (I liked the U5 combat system the most from all Ultimas I know) and made a new story, that showed the other side of "righteous" living. Even, when I never found the time, to finish U5, for me it is still the best of all time.

chipsy 12y ago
To be a bit of a pedant, there was a C64 port of Ultima 6, the only version of the game that ran on 8-bit hardware. [0] But it's essentially unplayable due to the technical limitations, as you've outlined. To quote one Youtube comment: "You would take two steps and data would load from the disk. Talk to someone, more loading. Walk a bit more, more loading. Dragged too much." [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcMljmsPkGM
- PythonicAlpha 12y ago
  Ok, my information was, that U6 was released on IBM PC and the developers did not support older (8bit) HW any more. Was this an official port? I tried to play U6 much later, but I hated the new controls, as much I remember.
  - 12y ago

frost_knight 12y ago

Have you heard of or tried Ultima V: Lazarus? It's a fantastic total conversion of Ultima V using the Dungeon Siege engine. It requires that you have Dungeon Siege or Legends of Aranna installed (won't work with Dungeon Siege 2). The (almost) complete Ultima V with extra sidequests and the option of becoming an evil Avatar. It's one of the best game mods I've ever played. I believe Richard Garriott himself gave Team Lazarus a big huzzah. some things from the original U5 couldn't be implemented in the DS engine. The blink spell had to be cut, for example. http://u5lazarus.com/ http://u5lazarus.com/

danielweber 12y ago
Not yet; I'm not finished tearing Ultima 5 to pieces and decoding every single thing about it. ;) After that, Lazarus, and then U6, which I've never played. It will be interesting to see how a fresh play of an Ultima game goes for me at this stage in my life.

samstave 12y ago

Have you played any of "The Bard's Tale" -- We had EXTENSIVE notebooks and maps from that game, much more than in Ultima. I think BT4 was the hardest, if I recall -- and the walkthrough books were also hard for us to get back then and both reviled and revered. If your doing nostalgia marathons, try that series as well.

bmurphy1976 12y ago
I played Bard's Tale III Thief of Fate for HOURS and HOURS when I was younger. I didn't understand the concept of grinding back then, so I never made much progress beyond the 3rd world (there were 8 if I remember correctly). Mostly because I kept getting into trouble by not building my characters up enough to be strong enough to tackle the next section. I had this idea in my mind for the longest time that I would go back and try to replay that game with what I know now and see how much better I could be at it. So I tried, and you know what? The game is fucking terrible. It's nearly unplayable. It's tedious, the graphics suck, the sound sucks, the interface sucks, the combat sucks. It does not hold up. I can't believe I spent weeks of my childhood playing this garbage. On the other hand, Ultima VI and Ultima VII are as good as the day they came out.
- samstave 12y ago
  HAHA, thanks for that - My memory is completely clouded in 7th grader nostalgia... so I appreciate you having a much mre recent objective look at the game :) I recall having a blast in bards tale, and memorizing the exact arrow keys to get from town to dungeon entrance without even looking at the screen. I recall dutifully mapping out all dungeons on graph paper.
__david__ 12y ago
I played a ton of Bards Tale 1 on my Apple 2. I don't think I ever passed it, though. For me, after seeing Bard's Tale I could never get into Ultima--the 2d top down graphics were just too poor compared to Bard's Tale's 3d view of the towns and dungeons. And I definitely remember mapping out all the dungeons and Skara Brae on graph paper. Eventually I borrowed the hint book from a classmate and photocopied the whole thing. Later, when my friends were playing Ultima V, I was playing Dungeon Master on my Amiga. I just couldn't get over the graphical difference. I never understood Ultima...

darklajid 12y ago

I got hooked on TSW [1] recently. Two years old it should count as a modern game where you probably need to take notes quite a bit. People playing can hand out "play for 72 hours" invitations. If you are interested, let me know. 1: The Secret World, in the MMORPG genre with.. attitude and interesting ideas

xipho 12y ago

But did you start with Akalabeth?

danielweber 12y ago
No, it wasn't in the package. :(
- mratzloff 12y ago
  They have a version available for iOS. It's just a simple BASIC game that evolved into Ultima I (also written in BASIC, with some Assembly).